Secret Programs, Consciousness, and Cloning: A Deep Dive with Tony Rodrigues

Imagine having memories from two simultaneous timelines, and being unable to account for your knowledge of people, places and events you've never experienced in what you remember as 'your life'? 

In this extraordinary conversation, I sit down with experiencer and researcher Tony Rodrigues for a profound exploration of memory, consciousness, and the hidden architecture of our reality. 

Tony shares how suppressed memories of a 20-year service period in secret programs resurfaced decades later, catalyzing a complete reorientation of his life. 

Together, we delve into the mechanics of memory retrieval, the emotional anchors that unlock long-buried experiences, and the universal field of awareness accessed through remote viewing. 

Tony discusses the controversial topic of cloning and consciousness-splitting, the control systems shaping human perception, and the sophisticated psychological operations operating behind the scenes. 

Yet woven through the entire dialogue is a powerful message of hope: that humanity is far more vast, sovereign, and multidimensional than we’ve been led to believe — and that disclosure, in its truest form, is a remembrance of who we really are. 

This episode invites listeners not merely to consider Tony’s testimony, but to reconsider their own assumptions about reality, memory, and the innate brilliance of the human spirit.

Tony Rodrigues is a Secret Space and Classified Programs experiencer, researcher and the author of three best-selling books sharing his personal account.   

In addition, he researches Black Budget Technology and teaches remote viewing, remote influencing phenomena, and long-term memory therapy, hosted weekly on his Patreon.

Tony actively speaks and hosts conferences focused on truth exploration, helping others delve into deeper understandings of hidden realities and the power of the consciousness. 

https://www.tonyrodrigues.com/

https://www.psiion.com

Instagram: @tonyrod231

Transcript

Meeting Tony And A Life Reset

Claire 0:02

Tony, I'm so honored that you're here. Um you know, we were just talking before the recording started, and and you said, you know, wait, this is all the good stuff, right? Because we were just, you know, we were just sharing about our various backgrounds, our different backgrounds. I couldn't have a more different background from yours, you know. I mean Well, uh yeah, and I guess some people would would debate that, you know. Some people believe that we're all on some level experiencing a kind of interference like what what you have uh experienced, even though it might not be to the same degree. Um so I'm I'm really interested in hearing what you think about that.

Tony 0:42

Well, first, thanks for having me, Claire. It's great to see you. Uh, we got to know each other through one of my groups, and I'm very honored that you'd have me here on your show. So thanks for having me. Um first and foremost, I always regard myself when I look in the mirror as a normal person, as a normal guy. I um, you know, I had kind of a middle life. I'm a blue-collar guy. I worked in the construction field for 30 years and raised my kids and and bought into the illusion that, you know, for most of my life that we're all under, uh, I had a glimpse behind the curtain when I was young when they took me and in those programs, and I didn't remember it until a certain age. And since I remembered it, my entire life turned around because not only did I have the um the remembering of looking behind the curtain, I began to look and I could act I actually had enough to point out, you know, evidence, if you want to call it that. And so my life turned completely on a dime at that point after 2015 and really has grown into where I am now. So now I I I carry the mantle of being as weird as possible, you know, like I own it. I um people in in public, you know, once in a while it doesn't happen a lot, but I'll be in public at a grocery store or out for a bite to eat. And you know, so or or just whatever, you go to the doctor and they go, So what do you do for a living? And I go, Well, I teach remote viewing. And um, that's a that's as that's the watered down, that's as watered down as I can give them these days. And I say I teach remote viewing, and they look at me and go, okay, and they change the subject, right? They don't want, they don't know anything about it, it sounds crazy. And uh it ends there. Um I used to I do a lot of things for a living, you know, like I'm juggling many things at all times, and so I can pick one when I answer that. But the remote viewing one I think is the the easiest one for me because it is the bulk of my time these days. And uh, but I was much more normal when I was young, and and since going through what I did and writing the book, um it's turned into a mission. It really has turned into a calling. Like it was a life people I never really I never gave it the weight that when somebody said, you know, this was my calling, I was called to do this, and I go, Yeah, okay, that's great. It looks like you're doing good. And I didn't give it the heaviness that it really has. And so I was called to do what I'm doing, and my entire life has followed suit. And and um I guess the constant has just been being honest to my ability, right? So just being truthful, that's really all I got. So, and that has fueled everything that has fueled the entire trajectory and just being honest, and it seems to get more difficult as time goes by.

Honesty, Mission, And Owning The Weird

Claire 3:44

Oh, really? Okay. Well, first of all, I love what you just said. I mean, it if we were all to follow that as uh, you know, one uh sustaining value through life, just to be honest, right? To be as transparent as possible, where would that take us? Right. I mean, that's that's what that's what calls us to a sense of mission. It's not because we decided intellectually that we're gonna have a mission and that we're gonna be called to something that it happens. It it only happens when our mask falls away. It only happens when we can start to be real and then we start to experience the real and then we get lined up with why we're actually here. So I'm fascinated about that for you. Like, how did it did you did you go from feeling like you had to hide things to feeling like you could talk about what happened to you?

Facing Fear, Going Public, And Protection

Tony 4:38

I was afraid in the beginning, and um, it was fear. So I had three kids. My kids were teens. My youngest, I think, in 2015 was uh 10, 11. And um I didn't know firstly, I thought it was just gonna be a temporary. I thought I got my memories back of my abduction event and what I went through, and I found evidence. I quickly went, I quickly found supportive evidence, and I thought, man, I don't want to take this to the grave. So I was fueled by personal guilt. And I've always lived my kind of life, my I've always lived with the intention that in the last few minutes of my life I would not be filled with regret. Right? So I think that your last minute is the best one and the worst one, depending on how you lived your life. And I think most, not everybody, but most people get two or three minutes fully conscious that they're aware that they're dead. Right? So boom, you're dead, your your heart stops, your body, whatever happens, happened, and your brain is active for three minutes or so. And in that time, many chemicals are released, and I absolutely believe that your life replays, and that's the judgment. I I I honestly do. I and it's a long story, you know. Start Project Starmaker, my second book, I kind of detail how I came to this and what I went through, and the which is I'm glad we're not talking about the how the sausage got made, and we're talking about after, you know, the effect on my life. But I feel that in that last minute, if you see something like if you're living today and you ask yourself, Am I gonna regret this in the last minute? If I died tomorrow on the sidewalk and I'm laying there looking at my life, would I look back on what I just did and regret? And if that's the case, then that's your mission, what you need to do. You need to immediately fix that regret. And uh so that's what motivated me in the beginning to talk about it, to research it, to say, I I don't want to go, I I got all this knowledge of what happened to me, and then things checked out. I had evidence, the places are real, and I thought, on my deathbed, if I'm sitting there and I should have said, Man, I should have said something. I should have told somebody about this. This is important, it could help somebody. And so that's what motivated me in the beginning. And then I when I got when it was kind of like I jumped off the cliff, I thought, man, is my family safe? Am I gonna be safe? Like, is this real? Am I in trouble now? And uh, you know, the doc Dr. Salah, I was on the second show I was ever on was exopolitics, and he said, Look, this is the going public is your defense. So if something if you tell your story publicly and then something happens to you, it it's you know, they don't want that, and they kind of want people to know that there are people out there that are afraid of them. Um so that motivated me in the beginning, and then after that, I thought I was just gonna, I thought I was gonna be one show, one or two shows, and that was it, and I was gonna go back to my life and and that would be it, and it would just fade away. And I'd I'd seen so many others go that route, right? So I've seen so many people come forward, tell their story, and then you never hear from them again. I thought that was me, that's cool. And it didn't turn into that. One led to another, led to another, led to another. And like I said, it was a real calling the way that it all came together. And during that time, for the first two years, uh I because I was doing interviews and things, and it was fresh on my mind, and I was also processing the emotions, the damage from it. You know, I remembered, you know, being greatly abused, and that really affected my my whole psyche. Once the because think about with Ant having amnesia for something, and then all of a sudden the memories come back. It's like that you lived that life. You lived that amnesia for a year. You were you lived a life, and that's that's you are the person you are today, was the sum of your experiences that give you your judgment on how to behave. And so I had all this memory come back, and I became a different ultimately a different person, and I couldn't, I had to, I had to really um process. It took years, it was like five years to process, and I became a different person, and you know, like uh my wife of 23 years, you know, she said it all the time, I fell in love with Tony Rodrigues, not Tonyrodriggs.com. And she's like, you know, and so we eventually parted over it because I was essentially a different person, and what made me happy before my memories came back no longer was anything I was interested in after. I was I realized the bar for happiness was much lower to be I could be happy anywhere. So I don't know if I'm gotten straight away from your question or not, Claire.

Claire 9:36

No, I love it. I'm I mean, I what I'm there's so many things going through my mind as I'm listening to you, but just the last thing you said about, you know, be becoming a different person after you get your memories back. I mean, I I feel like we're all um experiencing, we have all been in a collective amnesia. That's what waking up is. You know, waking, waking up is is wait a second, nothing is what I thought it was. You have a life before it, and then you have a life after it. And things do change. I mean, I can say in my own personal life, every nothing is the same as it was five years ago.

Tony 10:14

Nothing I think uh, you know, and I I think for a lot of people that amnesia is the right word, but I think for most of the masses, we could call it a collective hypnosis. Yes, and they're hypnotized and they're chasing they're on this treadmill chasing this carrot hanging on a stick that's never gonna happen. And you see it so many people, and I watched it, I watched my father do it, and um so many people that are chasing this happy one day. I'll be happy one day, I'll save up this. And that was me. I had a number, I had a financial number that if I could get to this number, all of a sudden, I'll have value and I can be happy, and people will like me, and I'd be worthy. And until then, I need to just keep working. And I had this this this illusion, this like finish line. And so I see so many people have it, and they're what they're doing, and I'm like, you don't need that. You can you can be happy right now, you can just be happy. You're everything's fine right now. You're you're you're causing trouble chasing this thing that's basically never gonna happen. Or even if it does. And in my in my father's case, he did achieve his number. He got everything he wanted. He worked his whole life away. And at the very you know, in his retirement, he got every he saved up and worked for his retirement, and he got everything he wanted, and he was miserable. Because he didn't know how to handle it, he didn't know, he didn't really there was nothing to chase after that. And he just didn't have that that presence. He didn't have any he didn't have the future any longer. It was present and he was totally foreign. And me after what I went through, just having f the freedom to go to the store and get a get some bubblegum and and go and enjoy the day and drive home, like that freedom was a big deal, and I took it for what it is. And you know, I look at everything that I have now, my life now, and I'm like super blessed, and it actually is making it easier to get to move forward, right? To so I um I feel like I'm confusing myself, so but that's kind of like uh what happened uh there. It was 2015, and then my life switched.

Claire 12:25

And so, was there something like was there a particular incident or something that caused your memories to come back? Did it all just come flooding in at once? How did it happen?

Trauma, Identity Shift, And Family Fallout

Tony 12:35

So I was watching I um at the time I uh I was working at home. I was a dispatcher for a taxi company, and I was working at a few jobs, but um that's what I did during my day, and I sl a couple it was a slow, slow off period after the holidays, it was dead slow. So January, February, it was May. And uh I saw an interview, the Randy Kramer interview with Dr. Salah, and he explained that they abductees into these military programs with with ETs are taken and they go through time dilation, or you know, they go through a series and they're put back the same night. So I and this is where it sounds incredible. I'm losing anybody that doesn't know that's watching this. Um, it's where I lose you. I get the thousand yard stare, but we have thousands, if not millions, fifty thousand UFO sightings a year globally. We have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of abduction experiences that all have the same common denominators, and people feel different. And I was it was what happened to me. I was 10 years old. They take people and they can keep them for a long period of time and then with their ability to perturb, put them back exactly where they left them, you know. So you can be gone for 30 minutes, but live 20 years and then go back to that body and the same same age and the same time, and then they put you back. And so it's we're talking about really radically advanced technology. William Tompkins, in his book, Selected by Extraterrestrials, tells the whole story about that. So for people that are can't have a hard time, people have a hard time swallowing that. I said that read the William Tompkins book. He had worked for NASA for the Apollo missions, he really details that. When he said that to me, all the bits and pieces of memories that I had made sense all of a sudden. Because I had remembered being a kid with ETs, and then I remembered being a teenager working, and then I remembered being an adult with a career on a ship, and then coming back as an older man, and then I remember being a kid, like all those. So I thought maybe I was taken many times, maybe I was taken once, or maybe it's all just a dream or something. I'll worry about it later. I have a number to chase. And that was that was really my life, you know. Like it was all through my life that I had these snippets that were definitely not dreams or imagination, they were they were closer to memories than and so when Randy explained that to me, explained that in that video, I literally went, Oh my god, that's what they did. And as soon as those those broken memories that were scattered, as soon as all those puzzle pieces had somewhere to go, and I went, Oh, there was 20 years that they had me. And I went, Oh, that means that that was and then so each memory, instead of me, my subconscious fight holding it, suppressing it, it was the it was the feeling of the mattress in the bag, the the foam mattress when you open it out of the package and it goes it was that it was a vacuum ceiling, and that my brain, my head did that. Fast forward uh about a year after that event. So I still and again, those are so I remembered living places that I had can easily prove I've never been, still have never been to Peru. It's not on my passport, but I have a great deal of uh information and memory about what's in Peru and you know, so I found these places, but in a year later I started working with Dr. Salad researchers because counseling wasn't available for people like that, and I knew they were gonna drug me quick. And I uh and I was functioning. I'm not I don't have some kind of underlying mental problem. I get asked that once in a while. So you've ever been treated for mental problems? Are you on any medication? No, and um, you know, I'm a pretty I've always been kind of functioning. I had substance abuse in my teens and twenties, uh, like most kids did back then. But um Dr. Salas said, hey, read these, read this about six months, you know, six months to a year later after that memory event, which was May of 2015. He said, Read this, this is the Mars records. And when I for like the first page, there were two guys that remembered working on Mars. They got their memories back. One of them used kinesiology. So he was doing muscle testing, but like a kinesiology machine, and somehow he accessed his repressed memories through kinesiology. The other one got an MRI scan of his head, and then a few days later got his memories back of working on Mars or his career on Mars. And I went, What I'll be damned. I got an MRI scan. Let me look at that. And I I was in the um Kaiser Permanente medical system back then. I lived on Maui. And so I had the website portal, and I I it was still, you know, a year later. And I looked up the date, and lo and behold, it was about 10 days before my first email that I sent out. So as soon as I got my memories back, I began emailing help, you know. And it was about 10 days, I was able to narrow it down through the records that I had that I got an MRI scan. I went to the doctor about a week and a half before that event, and I was complaining of headaches. It was just my yearly checkup. And I said, I've been having headaches, you know. And she said, Well, while you're here, it was a new doctor. And she said, Well, since you're new, let's check that out now. Because I want to build up a, you know, the doctor wants to build a file. And so I got an MRI scan in my head, nothing happened, nothing clear. And then 10 days later, get memories back of working in space for 20 years.

Claire 18:11

What do you think that it's about the what it what is it in the MRI that might stimulate that?

The Memory Breakthrough: MRI And Triggers

Tony 18:17

So many people got a hold of me after I went public saying, I think I went through the same thing. I don't have the memories you do. And I say, and I would bring up MRI. And I started looking at how to build one. I thought, I'm gonna build one. I, you know, for all these people to do this, I'm gonna build one in my garage and then I'll invite them over and run them through the MRI, and then we'll see if that's a therapy. Because so many people reach out to me, I really wanted to help. I I was so in the first three months of my memories back, and like I said, emotionally, I was I was putting together being very greatly abused. You know, I was I was internalizing like that, that whole the whole grief thing, the uh, you know, the internalizing of it, and I was all alone. My wife didn't believe in aliens. If they'd be in the Bible, you know, that so my kids, I couldn't burden them with it, and I really, none of the people I worked, I didn't really have anybody. And so when people started to come to me saying that they feel the same thing, I wanted to be there for them in the way that nobody was for me. And so, anyhow, I tried to build an MRI or looked into it, and they're just incredibly powerful machines. It's like an industrial grade. Like you don't, like it doesn't just plug into your wall. It's you have to have like what is it, phase three um electrical service available. And then there's like millions of dollars, it's a million dollars in parts.

Claire 19:46

So I mean, I'm just like, how do you get the idea to build an MRI? Like that would never you must be a science person, you must be like naturally inclined to that because I wouldn't be like, I think I'll just build one myself.

Tony 19:57

I am like that. I am a tinkerer, I like to build. My own device, my own. I'm working. I have a pile of parts that are not done because I tinker and then I put them together. And like I have a few things that work, you know, where is it? The obelisk. It works. It works.

Claire 20:14

I want to talk about all that stuff too. Yeah, yeah.

Tony 20:16

But I've always been kind of like that, like a garage guy. And uh anyhow, I somehow I think that I think that there may be a um when you get exposed to such a huge goss of a magnetic field that there blocks, like if you think about the um the brain neurons, electrical chemistry, that you have kind of like the uh electrical field going this way that they put a block in there, a chemical block, and it's makes your electrons spin one way. And when you're in that field, it makes them stop spinning or spin in a different way and perturb. And then when you're let go, it's not coherent anymore. The block is not coherent. That was my that it just changes spin on charged neurons.

Claire 21:02

So so do you think that's how they they uh create the memory loss or they they just block the memories by messing with uh I actually I actually remember a lot of it, a lot of the process, and it's not they don't just give you a pill or a shot and that's it when they delete your memory.

Tony 21:18

It's actually was a long process. They target part the so I remember the way that I remember when they put me back and they were blocking my memory, you know, and we're talking about eight uh aliens. So to be clear, yeah, we're talking about me being abducted and then living for 20 years, and then they putting me through medical procedures and blocking my memory, and then doing some grand procedure to put me back into my 10-year-old body back in 1982 from two from 2002, and me waking up the next day. So that's what we're talking about here. So to be clear, um, and I know what that sounds like to somebody that doesn't study this subject, but um, I remember that they worked on regions of the brain. So you went in, it was a big area, like a medical facility. And if you think of remember, have you ever seen in the arcade the driving games where you get inside the game and you're driving and it's got the booth and the curtain, they got shooting games like that at the movie theater. You know, you actually sit inside the arcade game and it's got its own, you know, privacy, and then you play these games. It was like that, but it was industrial grade hypnosis. And you would go inside the you'd go inside a booth like that, and they were actually hitting the it was pay it was painful. They were giving me, you know, long needle injections into regions of the specific regions of the brain, and then exposing you to the industrial grade hypnosis and the you know, and I remember I remember not being cooperative at first and laughing and saying, This is ridiculous. Do you think this is actually gonna work? And the the result is I really still don't remember a lot of faces. I don't remember the verbal names of places. It's very hard for me to remember street names or locations that that I was, even though I was able to do I've gotten some, but it still is a region of the memory that isn't hasn't returned. And specifically faces. I can remember bodies, people there, but I can't remember their faces. Like it's a gray blur when I think back into the memories. And there have been people that I've met that are back here that you know, and uh, but that's it's like a region of the brain that worked still. The MRI didn't block, didn't undo that. So I think there are several layers of the way that they block your memories.

Claire 23:51

Well, and and it must not be as effective as they hope for it to be, because there are so many people who are remembering now, you know.

Tony 24:01

I think there's a lot of factors involved, and I think on some level, from just from working with people, from doing consultations one-on-ones, I think they got better at it. So, and I also so I was taken when I was 10, and I lived until I was 30, and then was put back, and then I lived until I was 43 before I got the MRI. So it was a long period. Like for me to think back to nine years old is a very long time ago. But for me to think to 11 years old isn't this far, if that makes sense. So it's just that's that's a uh situation of it all. Like to think back of my seventh birthday feels like an entire different era.

Speaker 1 24:43

Right.

Tony 24:43

My ninth birthday. And I do have a lot of memories of my childhood. A lot of people don't. A lot of people have no memory of you know, nine years old or earlier. I've so I was shocked by that when when I started working with people about to do the memory exercises that I developed.

Claire 24:58

And um well, I I don't, I mean, I I have selected memories before the age of nine, ten. Yeah, but I don't have a lot of memory.

Time Dilation, 20 Years, And Evidence

Tony 25:07

And that's fairly common. But I I can remember quite a bit of it. I remember, you know, all the events, but you know what? My my parents, the household was very um turbulent. My parents were passionate. They they'd fight one day and love each other the next day, and we celebrated, but you know, like it was emotionally roller coaster in my childhood. So I was present in a way that I think forces those memories. And also childhood abuse may be the vehicle for retrieve retrieving memory. So what what we see what we see, and this is a dark secret of the community of people that of people that are abductees in the secret space program community and elsewhere, in UFology, people that have the memories of what happened to them often have childhood abuse in common. Yeah and so I think that that's a brand causes a brain structure to happen, or more more accurately, like a part of your brain to be strong, to be worked out like a muscle. And so you can defeat the blocks. Whereas people that had an even keel, they didn't have to use that panic part of their brain to survive, to adapt to a bad panicky say, oh God, I'm gonna be abused. People that didn't have that tend to be the ones that don't get their memories back because the abuse gets compartmentalized and they can only isolate that and to be done with that. And I'm theorizing here.

Claire 26:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, uh that's another reason why I'm so glad you're here, Tony, because I want to I I we need to uh bring this stuff out into the open, shine the light on it. I think there's far more people than we ever imagined who uh either are in your situation or you know went through something similar to what you went through or went to some went through some other degree of uh abuse. Um and you know, and and even if they were not abducted or um put part of secret space programs or anything like that, you know, the shame and the taboo um around abuse uh is a fragmentation of our psyche and it causes us to um, you know, yeah, to sort of loop uh in these unproductive places and we never get to become who we're here to be. So however it happens, you know, what whatever the experience is, I want to shine a light on it and I want to, you know, normalize talking about it so that, you know, we don't you don't get the thousand mile stare when you start start to recount what happened to you.

Tony 27:54

I've I've found that the same phenomenon is true for fragmented memories. So, like you said, um, like you don't remember your early years. Hopefully it's because they were uneventful and and stable and safe, and you had a great childhood, but there's a lot of people that have had other things happen in their life, and it doesn't involve being abducted by aliens, and they have fragmented memories or repressed memories. And this the exercise I found that the exercises that I came up with to remember also applied to people like that. Like it doesn't, it doesn't it wasn't only people that were abductees. Can I tell the little story about how I did that? Um I would did it early on in the first few years, I did a lot of interviews. Actually, for the first five, six years, I did a ton of interviews. I was doing three a week, four a week sometimes. And talking to and every interview would would generate people that contacted me and said, Look, I think I went through, can I talk to you please? I just want your opinion on what happened to me. And first I like I said, I tried to keep up with I still get them. The email is still full of them, but I just have moved away from that. The consultations are just like a huge um, it's a huge effort to do it all the time. And and people, you know, it's like just eats a ton of my life out, and I have too many other things going on. Anyhow, in the beginning, I did a show and a guy asked me a beautiful question. He said, So you were living in space, in a colony in space that had spaceships and aliens, like in Star Wars. And he said, How did you cut your hair? And uh I said, That's a good question. You know, I don't know. I remember they didn't allow facial hair. So I had to, I wasn't allowed to have facial hair. And I had a girlfriend up there that said, You would look so much better if you let your hair grow out. And I asked and tried to get permission, they wouldn't do it. But I said I couldn't remember it. And they said, Well, how about brushing your teeth? What was the toilet like? You know, what kind of shoes did you wear? And the guy, these are really good basic questions that you should ask contact people to say this stuff. And I said, Man, that's weird because I don't have a lot of memory for that right now. And what what it's what happened was in the beginning, I remembered all of the spikes, the emotional spikes. So your memories are tied to emotions.

Claire 30:23

Yes, right?

Tony 30:24

So if I ask you your 22nd birthday, most people don't have anything. What about your 21st? Most people can remember because you could drink at that point. It was an emotional spike, it was eventful. There's a lot of emotions tied to it. So you can remember your 21st, but you can't remember your 23rd, right? So it was it was not emotional. So I could remember the times that I had a girlfriend, or I got beat up, or I got screamed at or abused, or promoted. Like good and bad things, those were the memories that come first, which means that which alludes to the fact that emotions are tied directly to long-term memory.

Claire 31:04

Yeah.

How Memories Are Blocked And Retrieved

Tony 31:04

And uh, so those were what I was telling my story based based on the mundane day-to-day stuff. I didn't really remember much about my job back then, and I didn't remember brushing my teeth. And it really bothered me. It did. So for like six months after that interview, I started researching how to get memories back. How do I and it was rosemary? Remember, you know, like rose rosemary essential oils supposed to stimulate me. So I was dumping it on me all day long. I had bottles of it. Maybe it was a vector, but I just sure it sure didn't work. And uh I started remembering, I said, I could remember, I could remember the buzzer going off in the mornings that woke us up. So I was on a crew and there was a bunch of guys, it was like living in a barracks, like in a military barracks. And I always say it was a prison without doors, without bars, but it was like that. A buzzer would go off, and we would go out. I would go out and I was in like a pajama, and I would go to the end of the door, and we had to go into the shower. And I remembered that because it was emotionally terrible to wake up all the time. It was like very early in the morning, you know. I wanted to sleep in, and it was like every day you had to. So that emotion is what tied anchored that memory. So I would dwell on it, and I thought, how I did have to brush my teeth somewhere. What happened next? And then so I would dwell on it, and all through the day, all day long. I said I would remember going to the door and then walking over to the shower. And I can I had a clear memory of that, but I didn't have anything beyond that. And I would dwell on it all day long, and I was almost obsessive, and nothing, nothing came. And then one and and I would get sleepy. So parting gifts that they Jason Rice called them parting gifts, that they that post-hypnotic suggestion, the the hypnosis. So when you start to remember, triggers go off and you become sleepy or hungry or aroused, whatever. You know, I pardon my saying it, but uh, some people, and this is people I want to talk about, you start to remember your abduction experience and you get hungry or sexually aroused.

Claire 33:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tony 33:13

And then minutes later, however, when you go, Oh, uh, what was I thinking about? LC was on TV. And so that you just dis you just move away from the subject and never get your memories back. And I was working at it because I was still actively being asked to be on podcasts and YouTube shows. So I worked at it. Every time I got the blocker, I got sleepy, and that happened, it it began to make me angry. And I thought, man, I can't remember a damn thing. And it's I it's weird. I've had people tell me one guy got a hold of me and said, Tony, I can't read your book. And I said, I know it's just it's very, it's very um traumatizing for a lot of people. And I under He's like, No, you don't understand. I'm a publisher, he worked in a publishing house. He's like, I read books in days. He's like, I'm a reader. He's like, I read thousands of books, uh thousands of them. And I usually read a book like yours in a couple of days, and I read books every, you know, all the time for a look. This is my my and I cannot read your book. Every time I read your book, I go to sleep. Yes, and um, and I said, I'm sorry to tell you that it probably means it's you know most easily explained by you being um involved in some way. Yeah, and he was aware of it, but he just anyhow. So that's what I was going through, and what I found was I would get sleepy. So later in the day at three o'clock, if I thought about my shower and where I was brushing my teeth on Ceres, I would get sleepy and it would ruin my day. And so I thought, tomorrow morning when I wake up, I'm gonna give it 15 minutes until I get sleepy, and then I'm just not gonna think about it for the rest of the day. And actually found that that seesaw action, remembering, searching for the memory is like working a muscle, but it's your brain, so it's a different stress. And then not doing it actually is the action that lets your subconscious look up the memory. So I would think about it and then start to get sleepy and go, okay, that's it, and move on with my day. I'd have something ready to do there. You know, okay, now I'm gonna do my paperwork from yesterday. And then later in the day, when I caught myself doing it again, I'd say, nope, not until tomorrow morning. Because I knew damn well when I had my when I was sitting having my cup of coffee in the morning that I was rested and there was no need for me to go back to sleep. And so I was talking myself out of it. And what happened was if you think about a long-term memory, this goes for anybody at any any long-term memory. If you dwell on it in the morning, first thing, when your mind is fresh, you know, and then purposely ignore the curiosity for the rest of the day, it comes to you. It's just like remembering that old song. The um, you know, what was that song that time? And you go, man, it's on the tip of my tongue. I don't, man. And we sit there, we talk about that song from the last time we hung out years ago. What was that song on the radio? Remember, we were dancing? Oh, well, it'll come to me. And as soon as you don't care about it, and you wait, it'll be five minutes or an hour, whatever it is. Oh my god, it was that, it was uh police, it was every breath you take. Remember, now I remember because it comes back to you when you when you when you relax that muscle. And this is the same thing that I did. And after a while, I was like, oh my god, we had disposable toothbrushes. I remember they were they were disposable little plastic where we lined up and you ripped them and we threw them away. And I I was like, Oh my god. And then the ladies at the door, when we came back to the barracks, there were two ladies that wrote down or punched you into the system that you returned. And when my hair was long, they'd say, You need to go see the barber, he's right there. And that's when I'd get my hair cut. I was like, Oh my god, you know, like it worked, and so that exercise is what I taught to a lot of memory course about it, it's very detailed and tells how to do it. But ultimately, that action of stress and then purposely ignoring it lets your subconscious index, you know, lets it work it out. So that was what I found early on. And uh, that works for people, that's worked for people that are, you know, I don't want to say dwell on the bad stuff, but people had, you know, um memories that traumatic memories that they can't remember. They can't remember what happened, it was traumatic, and they could do that. And I say I always say, something there is real. Tell me what color the floor was. Tell me what wall the light switch was on. Do you remember? I remember being in a room and then this happened, and so and so was with me. I go, tell me what the floor was. Was it carpet? Was it hard? What color was it? I don't know. Dwell on it tomorrow morning. Just pride, just breaking that open, that shell of the around it that lets the rest of the memories be accessible freely. So as soon as you go, oh my god, it was a tile floor, it was red and white. And I go, now what was the ceiling like? What was the temperature like? Where'd you go after that? Where'd you go before that? And then once you break those memories down, then the rest it's you know, it's like an log jam or an ice. You know, you break it and then you get access to the memories. So that's what I found. And I've seen a lot of people do it. And doing that exercise every day for two weeks, you'll get one. You'll get them. It's about two weeks.

Claire 38:42

Well, this is super valuable for anybody who's listening and is like, you know what, you know, it wants to break through something. It because, you know, I my I myself, I've been, you know, wanting to recover something, and I just figure, oh well, it's gone. I don't remember it. But they do say that the subconscious is recording absolutely every detail, you know, and you must be able to go back. It so does this have anything to do with remote viewing, just out of uh curiosity, or or I mean, is well, oddly enough, I remembered all the remote viewing that way too, you know.

Tony 39:14

Um, from the early program that I was in was a remote viewing program. So um, you know, maybe. So when we look at the science of how remote viewing works, I mean that's interesting that you've said that. I mean, I I hadn't thought of it. But um remote viewing seems to be not the viewer looking at the target, the the viewer accessing a subspace or a quantum mind that has knowledge of all the everything.

Speaker 1 39:45

Right.

Tony 39:46

That's that is more um in line with what we're seeing. So I always say it's like a periscope where you're looking outside of we're in time space, we're in a 3D construct, and if you find the right brain waves, they collapse. To the Planck distance exactly. And once they get outside the Planck distance, they have access to everything all at once distance and future and past. And it seems to be a like a database, like a mind that's not judgmental or you know, it's like it's like a raw construct of all the data. And once you get into that right brainwaves, you have access to it.

Speaker 1 40:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tony 40:27

So maybe that's along those lines. You know, like basically everything is there. You know, everything is recorded in that outside of time space somewhere. I I always think of we're living in a big choose your own adventure book.

Claire 40:41

Right. Well, you know, those are some of my childhood memories, are those books, those choose your own adventure books. Yeah. I used to read all the possibilities, you know, until I'd read the entire book. And that's one memory that I have from childhood, interestingly.

Exercises To Recover Fragmented Memory

Tony 40:57

There we go. It's a start. I think our lives are the same way. I think there are things that are always going to happen. And there are things that we have a choice over. I think it's a I think it's a blend of the both. I think there are things that are always going to happen no matter what choice you make. But I think you have free will. So you probably agreed to those things before you got here on some level. You were you you gave permission to the things that must always happen. And that's my own personal belief, you know. But without getting too far out there.

Claire 41:33

Yeah, well, I mean, that's uh that's my view as well. You know, I I believe that everything is by agreement, you know, at another at the soul level, you could say. Um so yeah, I'm really uh so maybe in a way, like memory isn't as personal as we as we think it is, or the subconscious isn't as personal as we think it is. Maybe we're just accessing a universal mind that has access to everything. And and um because we each have an access to that universal mind, we each have a portal.

Tony 42:03

It's true. And what what I've learned with so okay, so let's move away from that. I just want to let the listener know that okay, the early program that I was in when I was taken, I was on Earth for a while, and the early program was a psychoenergetics and remote viewing research in in Yokern, California. And I went back and found the building and I found the receipts off the Freedom of Information Act, and the three buildings were there exactly how I remember them. We've there's a documentary coming out in January about it. Um what I've found since then, so since then I took that knowledge. When I went there, I remembered even more. So when I went on the spot, I got more memories. Because I could smell the place and feel the humidity, and it was tactile. Yeah, tactile memory. And um I remembered the remote viewing stuff and I started researching that and I went, oh god, I you know, I know this. And we started doing it in our tier three group on Talks with Tony on my Patreon, and I thought this is big. And I started another group for teaching remote viewing for because if there's a lot, it's fun. Um, but since then I've learned a lot. That group is really, you know, I've learned far more than I've taught, ever taught there. And uh it looks like there are no secrets anyway. It it looks a lot like our subconscious minds are fully aware of everything that everybody else does.

Claire 43:30

Yeah.

Tony 43:31

And because they're a grown-up, it's a higher mind, it doesn't have an emotional fit about it. So there are no secrets, and people that do things and think it's in secret to somebody else, it's because they've given you permission to do so.

Claire 43:47

Yes.

Tony 43:48

If you do something and get away with it, it's because they gave you permission, their subconscious gave you permission to get away with it.

Claire 43:56

That's so true. That is so true. And you know, I remember thinking, um do you remember back in the old days before there was DNA, before there was forensic, you know, there's this whole thing about forensic evidence now, and it keeps getting more and smaller and smaller, you know, what they're able to find, what they're able to detect. And I remember many years ago when the those forensic shows started, I found them fascinating. And I thought, the truth is everything is known. Everything is known, everything leaves a trace. And and all these shows are demonstrating is that we're starting to have technology that is showing us that everything leaves a trace. We couldn't see it before, but it was always there. And I think that's just a metaphor for the truth about reality. And and the only reason that people find your story or stories of other people that I'm talking to in the gray space uh far, you know, far out, fantastical is because we don't have a model of reality that allows for uh, you know, this multidimensional existence beyond uh time and space. We've been so reduced. And that's our, you know, that's the hip, that's the hypnotic spell, right? The trance that everybody's been under and that we're waking up from now. We've got to talk about these things and realize that, you know, it's like the old um metaphor of the um, you know, there's a kind of snail that only sees like, I don't know, I'm just making it up, five frames per second, right? And if we as humans see a hundred frames per second and our perception is just more sophisticated, you know, you you could you could put that snail over there and put an apple in front of the snail. The snail sees the apple, but then you could theoretically go in and grab the apple out. And the snail only seeing five frames per second doesn't have a sophisticated enough perception to see what happened, right? They see there's an apple and then there's no apple.

Tony 45:53

It just teleported away. Yeah.

Claire 45:55

Yeah, exactly. So they don't, you don't see the hidden hand, right? The hand that comes in that is slipping in between the veils, you know. We've been in this kind of snail-like perception, you know, and that's all changing now.

Tony 46:11

Well, that's a great, great way to explain that, and it's so true. And Plato tried, right? With the whole shadows and the cave thing.

unknown 46:19

Yeah.

Tony 46:19

Uh he tried to tell us that. The what my big one that I'm hung up on that I tell people nowadays, um, is our size.

Claire 46:29

Our size.

Tony 46:30

Our size and the universe. So, Claire, in in you might have been in one of the groups where I talked about it, but in relative position, when you think about all of the known universe, so everything that we can see with the James Webb or the Hubble, those telescopes, and all the telescope, all the astronomers, we can see univer, you know, the universe. We have Lanakia, the supercluster, and beyond that, we have this huge painting uh uh collage of astronomical knowledge that shows the universe is extremely big. For us to go to the next star is very big, right? So, in that relationship to you, to the size sorry, it's not a dog, to the size of Claire, or more accurately, hang on a sec. Close the door. More accurately, uh uh a cubic meter, like your chair behind you is probably like a three by three by three, you know, a cubic meter, a little bigger than a human. How big in relative size do you think you are to this all of the universe at once, to the smallest part of the universe? So for the size from you to be in the smallest measurement, where do you think you are on that scale?

Claire 47:53

Well, I mean I'm infinitely small and infinitely infinite at the same time. That's how I feel it.

Tony 48:02

No, let's do the math. We're we're doing math here. This is physical stuff. So gosh. On your scale from you to the size of the known universe is a 10 with 22 zeros. Okay.

Speaker 1 48:16

Yeah.

Remote Viewing And The Universal Mind

Tony 48:17

It's big. How many uh zeros do you think it is to get to the smallest distance, which is the Planck distance, is the smallest increment. From the size of Claire to the smallest distance thing, put pixel of the universe. How big do you think that how far apart do you think you are? You would think that the big universe that you'd weigh over here on the scale. It's a 10 with 33 zeros. Oh you're a massively huge object. A human being is a massive object on the scale of the universe. There are galaxies inside you worth of worth of atoms. It's absolutely tremendous. In fact, every living being on the planet, if we squeeze if we took the space away between their molecules, would be the size of a teaspoon.

Speaker 1 49:07

Yeah.

Tony 49:07

So we are massive clouds of energy, is what we really are. We're clouds of electromagnetic energy, and we are very, very, very, very, very, very big on the scale of what the universe is made of, of the stuff of the universe. And so when you think about that, and like you were saying, um, you know, where you're at, we put out a lot of energy. And we're a con we're self-aware, not like most of the you, you know, not like the wall around by you. So we're we're big things, and they have taught us that we're small.

Claire 49:40

That's right.

Tony 49:41

So they they feed that narrative that oh, you can't get there, it's too far away. You can't do that, you know, the world's too big, and you this is too big, and you're just it's just you, what difference are you gonna make? You are a universe of energy walking around. Like it's when I when I really when I really ingested that, yes, which wasn't long ago. When I really ingested that, it changed my whole perspective on a lot of things. I thought, you know, I'm going, wow, you know, there's there's life in there's galaxies inside you.

Claire 50:17

Inside me, yes, yes. I'm right there with you, Tony. And and that was a recent revelation or you know, inner standing for me as well, like in the last year. And it changed it does change your perspective, you know, and my obsession is fractal compression, right? I'm like, oh, we're a full universal fractal, the entire universe is within us. And that is what allows us to access infinite energy source, right? So, you know, I but more than on an intellectual level of understanding, I'm trying to feel what that means. I saw a um some video on Instagram a while back, some uh a woman who uh who had lost her father and um he was cremated, and she took some of the ash and put it under a microscope. And when you look at the images, it looks exactly like our images of space.

Tony 51:23

Oh wow.

Claire 51:26

It was so moving, you know. And it to me that was just a poetic demonstration. Because we're constantly uh we're constantly seeing that we're that we're we're both infinitely small and infinitely vast. That you know, if you go inside the smallest object, you end up coming back out into infinity. You know, it's it's it's mind-bending to contemplate.

Tony 51:52

It also gives you a context of what you really are, you know, like we're not just a speck of in meaninglessness. Yes. So Claire, can I pause? Yeah, of course. Can I I need like two minutes? There's somebody at the door.

Claire 52:07

Yeah, go, I'll I'll pause it.

Tony 52:09

Sorry, I'm gonna do this for the pause for the for the edit.

Claire 52:13

I got it. Can I ask you about um something that you mentioned in your book early on where they sort of aspirated your consciousness? They said we need to borrow your consciousness, right? And when you w woke up or next, you know, became aware, they told you you were a clone, right? You didn't remember anything, right? This is a topic that I'm like going down the rabbit hole the last couple of months about clones, because that was one of those things that I was like, la la la before. Like, I can't handle that yet, you know. Um, but I started looking into it because of a friend of mine who is, you know, uh very clear about you know being aware of clones. And so I said, tell me more, what should I how should I start researching this? I I I'm fascinated to know uh what you know about clones, about you know, the ability to make clones. Lots of people are now saying that people on the world stage are clones, that you know, uh entertainers are cloned, you know, that there's even some of them upset it themselves, you know. What what's the deal with that?

Scale Of Self, Fractals, And Presence

Tony 53:26

Well, it's easy, it's it's uh not easily said. I mean, from my own experience, I remembered them calling me that. So I was abducted, they put me in a room, they asked me questions, they did a they did a uh test, like a biopsy, like they poked me and did a test and had to wait for the results to see if I had the right genetics, they said. That's what they told me. And I'm talking about ETs in a room with ETs. And uh they said, we want to borrow your consciousness. That was the term they used. So I'm a kid, I didn't know anything about that. Uh put me on a table, did a procedure, I lost consciousness, and I woke up in Inyokur and I could barely talk. There were humans there. I was in a portable with other kids in a medical, you know, and um the doctor came and gave me a um physical examination, did the reflex test, checked my heart rate and everything standard. And he said, Do you remember where you came from? And I said, No. He said, Do you remember your mom and dad? I said, No. I had no memory, I had complete amnesia. And uh, so I was 10 and I had no memory of growing to 10. And he said, Well, that's because you're a clone. And I had what's a clone? I didn't know what that was either. So, boom. And from that moment, I lived for 20 years in the program in Inokern. I went back and forth to Seattle, I went to Peru, and then after a period of years, they put me on the moon and into space, and I ended up living on a colony on the inside the planetoid series. Like that's my testimony. Yeah, at the end of it, they put me back. And all the memories of those 20 years, I woke up all of a sudden back in my original body, with the memories back of mom and dad and growing to 10, and then not having those. And when I think about it, it's like my consciousness went to a clone and got that experience, and then they put the clone back in time and put your consciousness back in the original body and then kill it.

Claire 55:31

Kill the clone.

Tony 55:33

Yeah, they just kill, they just whack kill it, and that way all those memories are gone, and I still have my because I thought, how did they put my memories back? If they if it was just me, one person, and they took the memories out, how do they put them back? Like that doesn't seem and I thought, wow, they were it might have been cloning. But then the other thing that led me down that road were the people that I was working with. Because one of the telltale signs, I about 60% of the people, and a few thousand people I've done consults with, about 60% of them, when I asked them, when did it start? When was the event, the intake into the program? So that's what happened to me. I was 10, you know, uh, it was April of 82. There was the intake. I was abducted, and that that's what happened. And my life changed. And what I found was that after that moment, when I came back, I was different. And so my grades changed, my behavior changed, my friends changed, my relationship with my parents changed, my relationship with my sister. Everything changed about me because the the experience. And I I started asking people, did your life change? And then the other thing was I was never really emotionally all there for the br for that time. So from 10 till 30 till about 28, um, I wasn't all there. Like I really had a gate breathtaking emotion. Even my friends, my best friends, I they were like, Tony, you know, I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, man. Like when I was like 17 years old, I was like, I don't, I don't know what's wrong with me, something's wrong. And they're like, Yeah, because you have it together, but you don't. And um, but all of a sudden, at the end of the 20 years, it went away.

Claire 57:20

What went away?

Tony 57:21

The emotional problems.

Claire 57:23

Uh oh, okay.

Tony 57:24

And so I started asking people, what happened when you on your intake event? And when was that? And they would say, you know, whatever, it was 1990, 1990. And right around the springtime of 90, I I know they took me, and my I was like, what happened to your life? And they go, Well, it fell apart. And then I in my mind, I add 20 years to it. I say, Well, what tell me what happened in 2010? And most of the time they go, How'd you know that? What because I just I shock them with what happened in 2010 then. They go, How'd you know that? Because my life changed at the end when I was done. So think about consciousness-wise, you're one solid consciousness and now you're two. And so each of them is a little bit less. And that's exactly what it felt like. So, to for one example, I'll give you some TMI personal thing. I just didn't have the emotions. I could never keep a girlfriend for the in my 20s, like after that. I was just always emotionally upset, super insecure, and just not, you know what I mean, not emotionally developed. I was smart and, you know, seemingly getting by in life. And uh I would date girls, and then later on, you know, a guy in your late, late 20s, you know, it's like it's easy to date, right? So I would date girls, but it never lasted. It was just very I just didn't know what was wrong with me. I just had some kind of emotional barrier that made me unable to bond. And um almost exactly to the 20 years after that, about six months later, I met my wife. I stayed married for 23 years after that. It was overnight. It was like I was abducted, yeah, 20 years to that, and a few months after that, I had my emotional stability back. My consciousness was whole. And I find that with people, I say, Well, what happened? And and you know, one girl, one time it was so black and white, you know, and like I said, I'm just making up the dates. I said, What happened in 1990? And she was taken. I'd say, What happened in 2010? And she goes, That's weird because you know, I immediately divorced my husband who was really abusive, and I drove, but I just all of a sudden just drove across the country, finished my degree, and started working, and like my whole life changed immediately. And I'm like, Well, that's kind of a telltale sign. And I see that correlation in about 60% of the people that I worked with. So when we talk about cloning somebody, clearly there's a consciousness. Like a dilution. Like the consciousness is diluted between them. So one whole person, a psych, and I don't even know what aspects you'd you'd attribute it to. You know, the emotional aspect or the mental aspect or whatever. Um IQ, if there's an IQ di deficit there, um, I don't know exactly how I would measure it, but there is a real phenomenon for people that claim to go through these programs, be cloned, where they're heavy where they become lesser during the time of the clone being alive. And certainly that was the case.

Claire 1:00:37

But presumably you're in a there's a there's a loop, right? Because if they if you're you were eight years old, you said when you're nine years old? 10. Okay. So if you're 10 years old, you go to sleep one night, that's when they take you, that's the event, right? Then they aspirate your consciousness and put it into a your a clone. That clone has a life for 20 years and comes back to the same moment, basically, more or less, as the abduction moment, right? So your so your 10-year-old self now has, whether it's accessible or not, uh, memories of a a life that was lived, right? But is back in time at the moment of the event, at the moment of abduction and you know, continuing life. So then at the so 20 years after that, so if we come back from that time loop and then 20 years go by in your the this incarnation on the planet, you know, who doesn't remember anything about the 20 years space program or whatever it was you got to do, right? Is it like there's some kind of echo or reverberation? Because those are two different experiences. There's the the the lived experience of the clone, presumably, and then there's the lived experience of the original who doesn't remember what the clone did, but somehow at the 20-year mark, there's like uh the clone dies.

Tony 1:02:01

Oh the clone is dead after that 20-year mark.

Claire 1:02:05

Oh, that's why.

Consciousness Loans, Clones, And Dilution

Tony 1:02:07

So the clone is dead at that point. It it's done, it doesn't exist. And so I asked, I remember asking this to the ET. I said, why not 50 years? Why not longer? Why 20? Why not 10 years? And he said that most, he said, not only you, but most species. There's a there's a um a risk of being damaged. So he's like, if we some species can do it longer, but we just cap it at 20 years, because if you went for 25, you could go back and have a mental problem forever. You could be so they just made a law and they it's capped at 20. So because there's it could be a residual, like um and there is, and to be fair, I mean I was like devastated. I was not the the next morning that I was abducted, I did the math and I went back through the rec weather reports and this my old school records, and it was April 15th, 1982. The night of I was abducted. When I woke up on April 16th, Friday, April 16th, 1982, I was a different person. I was not the same kid. Even my dad said something happened to you that later that summer, my dad was like, I want my son back. Something happened to you. He's like, You're not the same. And I was a completely different person because of what I because I had because I experienced the 20 years first.

Claire 1:03:31

Yeah.

Tony 1:03:32

And then went back and then, but I'm saying during that time when both of them are alive simultaneously, one was in Seattle, I could have met myself theoretically. Um but during that time, you're it's like you're sharing it.

Claire 1:03:48

Right. Okay, okay. Because sorry, I'm just trying to understand the the my my mind, my 3D mind is trying to trying to get it around.

Tony 1:03:56

Most people are confused find this confusing. Yes.

Claire 1:03:58

Yeah, right. Like, so in the the 20 years, the 20 years are going on simultaneously with you growing up. It's not actually out of time.

Tony 1:04:09

No, there were two of me. I could I could stand in the room with myself. It wasn't a lot of people thinking like, oh, you were astrally taken or you were dreaming it or it's a past life or it's in the future. No. They took me, there were two of me, one of them went and worked in their service and was free labor for them. And the other one got shifted out of my lifestyle. Like I changed it as a person. And then when they put me back, my life kind of got back on track.

Speaker 1 1:04:35

Wow. Okay.

Tony 1:04:36

You know, um, and like I said, um a thousand a few thousand people that I've worked with since then that have told me the same thing, many of them have had uh pretty much the same experience. The same thing.

Claire 1:04:50

Yeah, yeah. And I've I've heard this enough times from people that I've chatted with that uh yeah, it starts to you start to you start to un understand it, I guess. You know, you start to accept it.

Tony 1:05:01

Um Well and consciousness in general is very deficient in our medical research. So and we both we all know they they officially the met uh academia officially says that animals don't have consciousness. Yeah. You're telling me that my dog doesn't have consciousness, that it doesn't have a personality compared to another dog, that it's just an automaton. Like, I can't believe that any they could deduce like I really it's mind-blowing to me that and and why because the same way that many of the other sciences are blocked. So they you know, there are many people on the insiders into the programs that say that you know all of our science has been locked up away from us. So they don't they they don't have the ability to make the discoveries that would unlock what what what I'm talking about have gone having gone through.

Claire 1:05:57

Well, I mean, yeah, look what look at everything that's at stake. I mean, that's why I I've been so obsessed with disclosure. It's it's not for me, it's not about the aliens, it's not about the the advanced technology, even though I'm I can't wait for us to you know be able to benefit from organic technologies uh that are advanced, because I know we have access to that. It's not about infinite energy, uh, although you know that is amazing too. It's not about, you know, um the the fact that we've been in one paradigm where we've been told that we're nothing, that we're small, that we're deficient, that we are uh inferior, uh, and that's the opposite of the truth. It's not even, it's not about all of those things, even to me, it's about who we really are, what our capacities truly are, the nature of reality itself, which has been definitely curated and uh twisted and uh you know delivered to us, packaged in a certain way, that we've just grown up with all of the, you know, inside this box uh and have no idea who who we really are and what we're here for. So I mean, to to me, all of the the different threads of disclosure are fascinating. You know, yeah, I want to know about clones, I want to know about secret space program, I want to know about interdimensional beings, I want to know about what's actually been going on on the planet, you know, to fund all of these black projects. I I I want to know all the details of all the different threads, but for me, they're all they're all part of a a big tapestry, you know, that is that's the wool that's been, you know, over our eyes. And there's a reason for that. It's not random, you know. That is what is fascinating to me about disclosure. That's why I can't get enough of talking to people who are coming at it from different perspectives. Because I want to remember, I want to remember who we are, why we're here.

Tony 1:08:19

Um this is a great discussion when you think about it. Uh yeah, the truth is after all that I've after all that I've disclosed, and then going on the road and meeting other people. So going and doing all that, like I've learned a lot. And I think that people just don't look into a context of where we're at in the universe. Most people are, you know, sad to say, but most people only see themselves and the shopping center. You know, that's it. And they don't really have a care about what goes on for other people or care what goes on above. And we are very, and we're very, very, very programmed nowadays, especially in the political sense. Um so people aren't really setting themselves free. A lot of people just don't have curiosity as one of their primary traits. You know, um, which is fine. Um, but they when you leave it up to somebody else, it's been perturbed. And I think it's ran amok. I think that the official the official um lie lies that they've given us through all throughout history have really ran amok in the last 50 years. Like they really have gone over a cliff. And people are starting to be like, wow, wait a minute. You know, like we're starting to, you know, we're all communicating. We couldn't do shows like this, you know, 20 years ago. Um I want to I'm thinking of a way to word the point that I'm trying to make here. Um I want to be I want to be careful about the way I say it. What I've learned is that where I'm where I'm looking, coming at it from, like with all the stuff that I do now, the challenge that I think that faces us all is to undo the programming.

Claire 1:10:10

Yeah.

Tony 1:10:11

So not it's not about new programming, it's not about learning a new fact. Everybody knows there's aliens. It's not, I mean, really, I'd be the people, I think the people anybody that believes that we're alone in the universe is a huge in a very small minority at this point. Yeah, yeah. So we don't need that. We need to understand how many things have a control over our conscious mind.

Speaker 1 1:10:35

Yeah.

Tony 1:10:35

And there's a lot. And I mean, I've been researching that's I started a site, an audio company that does programming for for positive things. You know.

Claire 1:10:48

Yeah.

Tony 1:10:48

So why not program us to do things that we want?

Claire 1:10:52

Yeah, yeah. I would love it if you could share more about that and you're and you're you're tinkering, you know. I mean, that's uh to put it mildly, um, because yeah, I've got a number of your audio uh meditations.

Tony 1:11:04

Do you?

Claire 1:11:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Disclosure, Secrecy, And Everyday Proofs

Tony 1:11:06

Um I just made the stress one. I finished the stress shield this morning. Oh I gotta tell you, I was listening to it to like I had to change. I have there's a few changes I want to make still. So I was giving it a proofread this morning, and I realized that I'm not stressed at all. I'm like I realized that I'm the most laid back I've been in weeks right now after this, so it works. Um and all I'm doing, uh I learned it all from the people I met. So I met, you know, Elena, Danan, I've met Randy Kramer, I've met people in the in the film industry from you know, whistleblowers and Dan Winter from uh what is his website? Plankfire.com. And you know, you Dan Willis and you shoot the breeze with these people that have careers, and you get the cliff notes of things to research and go home and research and do my homework, and I thought, oh wow, I could do and then from my lens of perspective, I go, I would love to build one of these to help me because I have these problems. And once I started down that road, I I've always wanted okay, let me back up a little bit. I was asked in a conference a few three three years ago. Um I was asked to go to a conference, a tech conference, and present in front of investors and research scientists and research in San Jose in Silicon Valley, and tell my story about the secrets, my my experience being abducted in the secret space program, and see if there were any technologies that I remembered that I could inspire a room full of inventors. And I went there and presented, and uh I talked about the education, so they put me to school up there. I had to be trained. You know, when I went from one job to another, I was in a space colony, and when I lost was no good, when my job dried up, they would take me and put me into a not a real school, like the way we think about it, but a system that would assess you and and retrain you. And I said, We could do that. I think it's faster. I think it's a faster method of learning. And um what was the other one? Welding. I was I ran all the and that's actually real now. So what I called out 10 years ago, I had no idea, but it's actually real. They have auto welders now that you plug, and it's exactly like I remember. It's crazy.

Claire 1:13:39

And those are these have appeared, these have appeared on the scene here now, you're saying? Uh-huh.

Tony 1:13:44

Yep. And uh battery tools, uh, you know. But anyhow, I presented on that and a few other things um that we did up there, and nobody cared. They wanted free energy. All of them, everybody in the room wanted gravity and free energy. They didn't care about anything else that I was saying. That they were like, whatever. And I presented a month later at a separate conference, and I still had the slides in my presentation. And I was finishing up and I said, Oh, by the way, I did this, and there's the school system, and our school's terrible. When you look at when you look at the performance of the public school system and the academ the test results of children that graduate, it's oh well, anyway.

Claire 1:14:26

It's just an indoctrination system, basically.

Tony 1:14:28

It's grim. It's a very grim thing, and it's getting and progressively getting worse. Still, it's eroding fast.

Speaker 1 1:14:34

Yeah.

Tony 1:14:34

And I said, this is something we could do. And people approached me and said, Tony, I'll give you money, do it. And I'm like, okay. And I started researching into the it's an adaptive learning company, and I still am working on it. The guys are really slow. Um guys, we're building an in-house media generating AI. It's its own AI, and it'll generate media, then a human proofs it and then assembles an adaptive um module, learning a course, an adaptive course. So the the premise is that not everybody ingests information the same. I can't stand watching a video. I I really an instructional video, I wanna I want to rip my hair out. I just can't do it. I'd rather read a book. Some people are the opposite, and they can't read a book, they'd rather they need to watch it in a video and show me how it's done. Yeah, I I just can't do it. I I want to read it and then do it as I'm reading, kind of thing. And so the the ingestion of information is media dependent. Some people don't want words or a movie, they just want a picture. You know, if you want to break it down into those kinds of media. So this is a school system that feeds you media, and then when you get something wrong, it feeds you a different media. And you get that wrong, it feeds you a different one, and then the over time it knows which one you prefer, and it just feeds you that. So that's kind of what it is. Uh, you know, that's a simplified version.

Speaker 1 1:16:03

Right.

Tony 1:16:04

It starts with a bineural tone. So ETs put me in school, and I'd sit down at my desk and I had to listen to a bineural tone for five minutes. And so that was the ground one when I had when I got the investment money. That was the first thing I had to research was the bineurals. And how do you make them? And I got the software and all that. And then when Dan Winter explained his phase conjugate pump wave to me and how it proceeds to harmonics and remote viewing, brainwaves to remote viewing. When I put all that together, I thought, oh, I can change the harmonics and the bineurals. That's what nobody's doing. The sulfegio frequencies, the the healing frequency of the 20, 40 hertz, they're all off a little bit. And so Dan gave me the real, you know, plankfire.com, he gave me the real cascade, and it really does make a difference. Some frequencies feel like uh fingernails on a chalkboard, and some feel silky smooth. And what happens is if you find the right frequency for the brainwave entrainment, it's far more effective. And that's what these are. So I went, oh my god, this is amazing. I gotta do this. And I thought, what if I did a little subliminal message in there to tell you that you're great? Like, what if I did a successful one for people? Because that's the number one thing that people want is make money, money, wealth and abundance, right? When you make a guided meditation thing, and it's not a guided meditation, and so we took we took the tracks and said, you know, it's all gonna work out. What if it works out? If not, you then who? You know, we things like that, little subliminal, and I just turned the volume down to where you could barely hear the whispers in the early ones. And then I was researching and I found something called phase canceling subliminals. And you can crank those up. And now I it's loud. So it's a very loud thing. And I take these scripts and put the script in there, and then while I'm saying certain things in the script, the brainwave entrainment go goes in and out of different brainwave states with the binaurals and isochronics and bilaterals with white noise and pink noise and then a music score so you can stomach the whole thing.

unknown 1:18:12

You know?

Claire 1:18:13

Yeah.

Tony 1:18:14

And they're very effective, and people have been really raved about them. So I thought this is just the audio media. This is just only the audio. We're we have an AI that's gonna generate the flashcard, the cue cards, and the the voice and pictures, like moving pictures, and then some video. We're up to eight seconds in video in our AI, and it's so it's it's probably still three to six months out at this point. And it's been a lot of work. These guys are really um you know helping me out because it's a because the first quote I got was like $80 million, and I don't have that. So they're helping me out, you know, these guys, and they're really good. So we're building that. But Scion, I started Scion.com, it's just based off the audio technology that I had uncovered in researching for the for, you know, like a space school with the different media in it. So just the audio one spawned a side company that is very, very effective so far. And the the morality is that they're using this again. It dawns on if you think about what I could do with this.

Education Tech, Binaurals, And Entrainment

Claire 1:19:19

That's exactly what I was gonna say and and and ask too, right? Because presumably we have been uh exposed to mind control frequencies uh for our entire lives, and we don't even realize. I mean, I I I started becoming aware I could hear the tones and stuff like that, and I was like, what is going on, you know? And but it makes total sense, you know. I mean, they're those frequencies are being diffused all the time, and we know that they that directed energy weaponry exists, and so if they can focus frequencies at us to keep us uh dull, uh anxious, compliant, all of that, then And we need something to I mean, I th I personally I feel like all of that is going to be shifting in the next year and a half or so. But I anyway, uh we we need to counteract the effects of those um disempowering um technologies that we have been subjected to.

Tony 1:20:18

Some of the things I built absolutely, and I think well, and I think people don't realize the level of it of how how sophisticated mind control is through your media. You're not scrolling what you liked. So you you know, if they want you to, you know, you you look like, well, if I like this video, they'll send me more of these videos, and that's what I'm scrolling through. That's not the case. They give you two or three videos, and you don't have a choice. One of them, they they're gonna give you these videos until you like one of them. And that's their excuse to feed you with the rest of them that are gonna be really weird and and bend you into how many you have a talk with people. You even said earlier, I saw an Instagram video.

Claire 1:21:01

Yeah.

Tony 1:21:02

A lot of times, especially if you're talking about politics right now, you're having you're not having a talk with that person, you're having a talk with their Instagram feed. When you talk about somebody's political a lot of people don't follow the news, they don't read about the news, they don't have a political opinion, they have no idea about the policies or what the laws get passed, they don't care because they have their own hands full in their life, and you're talking politically to their Instagram feed, not them. And so, and then people get heated because it's a frustration. Your phone watches where you're looking.

Claire 1:21:34

Oh, yeah, that tracks your eyes.

Tony 1:21:36

Eye tracking is is is everywhere, it's super easy. That was the first software company I worked with. They were like, Yeah, we can do eye tracking, that's easy. They're looking at what you like in the picture, so you don't have to like the video, you can just look at the basketball in the corner, and then five videos from now you're gonna get a basketball one. Um so that and then the face canceling, like I said, the sublims, you cannot hear them, and they're loud. They're actually quite loud. Like I can make the speaker crackle and you can't hear the sound. Just the speaker's crackling for no reason. If I crank up the gains really high, yes, but you are hearing it, you just can't physically, you just don't consciously hear it. Right these are all over the place and they're highly effective. What I found was when I put a phase canceling subliminal in a with a little song, a jingle, and put it out there, those are the ones that get played. And I tell people flat out, I make I'm using subliminals, and I'm not doing them, I'm not doing them with some kind of um immoral thing.

Claire 1:22:38

Of course.

Tony 1:22:39

But those are the ones people can't get enough of. I want to see it again, again, play it again. You know, friends come over, I go, look at this video I made, and they go, Oh, play that again. I'm like, okay, play it again, play it again. Because you're trying to sort out what it told you that you don't consciously register, but you know there's more to it. And that's the stuff you can't get, you know, that really that sugary video that you can't get enough of. It's because it's got subliminal content in it. Uh the moral end around that I'm going to do, uh, we're doing a read make on Scion.com. I hired a marketing team and we're gonna do a whole we have a whole new suite come up. We're doing a hypnosis deprogrammer. We're making a deprogrammer series to clean slate you from your that is great. From all the programming you've got your whole life, or if you had a bad hypnosis or whatever it is to have a clean slate to like a like a deprogram. I'd like to think of a better name for it, but we haven't yet. Right now it's called the deprogram series. Um but because the subliminals, if you are aware of the script, they're far less effective.

Claire 1:23:40

Right, exactly.

Tony 1:23:42

So how do I tell you the script and have you not know it so that it's super effective and you trust me? Right? So you have to just trust me that this is going on. So what I'm doing is making a page on the site that will have instructions and say, look, if you're if you are listening to this product with a subliminal in it, and you have doubt, you can have a loved one look on the page and read it for you. And that way you maintain the no knowledge of what's in it, and you can have somebody that you trust read it and say that, you know, because they know you intimately and go, well, she doesn't like apples or she doesn't like oranges, and you're talking about oranges all the time. So don't listen to that one. So I just want to do it because then morally it's a really it it really is a slippery slope. Like I'm to the point in my life where I I'm starting to do things where it's actually, is it beneficial to tell everybody everything, you know? And you see where these and we know that the people that are running the world don't have moral compunction for lying to us or leading us to do the wrong thing. So this is the technology they've been using for since the 70s.

Claire 1:24:52

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that that's another thing, right? That that that people need to get their heads around is how long this has been going on. You know, when we're talking about disclosure, now look, I'm glad that that that documentary came out recently, The Age of Disclosure. I'm glad that that came out. But, you know, the the repeated argument was, you know, oh, you know, you know, this disclosure hasn't happened because we're, you know, people for them to get their minds around the fact that we're not alone, I'm like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 1:25:24

You know, that's not true.

Claire 1:25:25

That's just an excuse. This has been going on for 80 years, just you know, I mean, like this last chapter for 80 years, but it's really been going on for thousands and thousands of years.

Tony 1:25:35

Children are born expecting ETs. You know, children don't have a problem. Like, we're ready for the truth. That the the tired excuse that we're not ready is just not true.

Claire 1:25:45

No, it's true.

Tony 1:25:46

Everybody already knows there's ETs out there. Like, this is something at core in your in your soul that you know. Like somebody that grew up on an island in ancient times, they know that there's land out there elsewhere. They know it. Um whether the remote viewing aspect of it or just just the fact that your soul has knowledge. Like we know there's worlds out there with people on them. And um so that tired excuse is it's just so tired. It's just so how did they talk us into even believing any of it? It's so preposterous when you really think about it and you look at the night sky, it's so preposterous what they've sold us.

Claire 1:26:24

It it it's ludicrous. It's literally well, and I can't look at the moon anymore the same way. I just can't. I know too much now. I can't, I can't look, I can't hear about the moon landing anymore. I'm like, um, no, no, no. And I and and it's funny because you're like, how did I ever, how did I ever buy that? How did I ever and it's not even that you're like, oh yes, that makes sense. It's just, it's just you you've heard it your whole life. It's hypnotic, right? They just repeat the same things over and over again, and you just don't question it unless you have a reason to question it, right? But once you wake up to things, you just can't go back. You know, you you not you just don't see things the same way anymore. You can't, you know, it's what you said right at the beginning of our conversation.

Tony 1:27:09

It's true. Well, there's an the inclusion factor. Um, I always tell people, like, look, you should all get into astronomy. I did it for uh years, uh, you know, my own telescopes and go out in my backyard and look with your own eyes through a piece of glass that doesn't have a digital thing to it and look up. And most people don't, and they think they're falling for things. I think I think a basic knowledge of astronomy, uh joining an astronomy club for a year would squash a lot of ignorance in the world of what we deal with today, you know.

Claire 1:27:43

Um do you have a telescope now?

Tony 1:27:46

Yeah, a little tiny one. But I you know, I I did all that years ago, and I was like when I lived in Hawaii, it was a very good view.

Speaker 1 1:27:54

Yeah.

Tony 1:27:54

Um, and then I moved around a bunch, you know. I've been moving a bunch. That's a long story, but um no, I did it for a while, and for I was I participated in the the University of Hawaii, the Institute for Astronomy. We were they had a side like a public astronomy club, and I was in that. And um, I got I was able to see some of the bigger telescopes and actually participate in some watch the development of stuff that matters today, you know.

Claire 1:28:22

Yes.

Tony 1:28:22

Um but just knowing how it works. So astronomy is a really good for telling how for dispelling things like the flat earth, like the sky is a big dome. You need to dispel that, it's easy with a couple telescopes to do right.

Subliminals, Ethics, And Deprogramming

Claire 1:28:38

But um three eye atlas. Do you have a take on that?

Tony 1:28:43

Three eye atlas is great for the algorithms. So you should put that in the title of this episode. Claire and Tony talk about three eye atlas for two seconds. Two seconds, yeah. And well, it'll bump you up in the algorithm, so it's a hot spot.

Speaker 1 1:28:58

Right, right.

Tony 1:28:59

Um we remote viewed it a couple times and got some ambiguous uh like it's not just a rock. I don't think it's just a rock. But the persona of 3I Atlas has been inflated. Avi Loeb got a wonderful career from Omuamua when it came through, and he got on all the shocking shows, and he probably made a significant amount of money. And when 3I Atlas came, he really pumped. It could be, they always open it with it could be this, and so that it's like a tag, it's a gotcha. And so they're overmarketing it, is what it is. The reality is that we didn't start looking for these objects until 2010. So we were not looking at the entire night sky before 2010 at all. We were looking at a thumb size of the sky at any given moment, and so uh these objects flew by all the time. And now since 2010, and then they got the rest of it online by like 2017. Now they can see the whole sky at once. Like they had we have telescopes that can see the entire sphere around the earth at once, and they can see these objects now, and so now we've got three or four uh you know, extra stellar objects that have come through. So they're gonna we're gonna get more of them. It's a natural thing. Through Atlas is weird, but they've sensationalized it, and then people have piled on and turned it into this word salad of, you know, and they maybe who knows if they're right. Like I don't I I on one hand I want to fight back against against the speculative part of this community where people just you know take a mutt, take mushrooms and then speculate that that's what's going on, and then they make a YouTube about it. Or people, you know what I mean? Like I want to fight back against that, but also they could be right. So I don't I don't I'm not that guy. I've always said that I'm not a researcher in that term. I'm not here to I'm not here to confirm or deny somebody else's uh info. But we've certainly seen a the the BS get deep around the three I Alice thing.

Claire 1:31:13

Well, I love what you said, you know, that these objects flow, you know, go through all the time and that that's normal, right? And and you know, that actually the planet is surrounded, we're surrounded by craft, we're surrounded by vessels that's normal. Um, you know, that we've been living in a bubble of of abnormality, and now we're starting to realize oh, actually, there's a whole uh reality, there's there's a there's a an understanding, uh a real understanding of reality would explain a lot of things that most that many people scoff at, you know, or can't handle. Um, but it's starting to happen. And maybe three Atlas uh is just one of those ways that you know people are starting to uh get used to the idea that um, you know, well, there's a lot more going on than than they told you, you know.

Tony 1:32:01

And it has been that way forever. The the mainstream breaking it to people that otherwise didn't care, never cared less about looking up. The reality is that when you look up into the sky, something like I mean, this is me telling you this, there's not an official thing. You know, this is Tony. Not I don't like I can't look this up in a textbook for you, but the reality is that something like seven out of ten stars up there has an earth around it. So when you look up into the sky and you think about an earth with the people on it, on seven out of ten of them, we can see about three thousand scar stars with our naked eye. That's all we can see. And beyond that, there is trillions and trillions and trillions of them. And so that's how many worlds the universe is teeming with intelligent life. And that's what they're not telling us. Like in if when you really look at it, when you really look at it and boil it down, it's as if we're on an island and they've kept us in the stone ages.

Speaker 1 1:33:00

Yeah.

Tony 1:33:01

And they come to the island and say, What did you guys dig up my stuff? We're giving them, you know, whatever it is, some resource. And they go, Okay, we'll see you later. This is cool. And we need we're gonna take uh some of you, you, and you come with us. Goodbye. And then and we're stuck on this island, they're like, Oh, there's nothing out there, you'll fall off the edge. Don't don't make a boat. Just us. We know. See you later. And it's a big secret. They sneak in at night, and and then the rest of the world is going on with m cities and airplanes and and trains and computers, all that's going on around this. But the people on the island are stuck in the stone ages, and they keep lying to them, telling them, you know, for whatever exploitation. I think that's really the accurate um metaphor for the earth. That's what we are. We are on an island around metropolises of teeming with life, billions of people, and the earth is this little island out at sea that nobody's allowed to go to, and they come here and they tell us what they they take what they want and leave. And that's alien abduction, and that's our that's our that's why the secret. It's not because people aren't ready for it. Think about it. A little kid, you can tell a kid anything, they believe in Santa, they believe in all kinds of dragons and everything. They people are ready. There's no there's not gonna be fighting back against changing the status quo. But uh someone said that um one of the truths they would release is that the ETs wrote the religions. And that's the biggie. Yeah, if they came down and disclosed, they'd have to say, like, look, they wrote the religions so that we'd stop killing each other, which I don't think that worked good.

Claire 1:34:44

Well, maybe they wrote the religions to can't to keep control and to harvest energy.

Tony 1:34:50

Yeah, true. Well, controlled, controlled for sure. And uh that makes a lot of sense, but I think I think even the most religious people would not abandon their faith, even if they had to abandon the religion from one, and I think that most people could handle it and there wouldn't be mass suicide. I don't think that there would be some kind of catastrophe. I think people would people are resilient and roll with the punches. And for them to say this is just an excuse for them to continue to exploit us.

Three-I Atlas, Astronomy, And Hype

Claire 1:35:19

Yeah, I I completely feel that. And and you know, again, I'm always asking the question, well, why? You know, why have why has this planet been on such a lockdown? Why have we been kept so much in ignorance? Why have we been reset so many times? Why has our memory been wiped over and over again? Why have we, you know, have been subject subjected to this level of uh perceptual manipulation and control? Well, it's it's not because we're weak and inferior. No, it's because of value, who we really are. Yeah, yeah, and what we represent in terms of yeah, great value, as you say, but you know, it's our spiritual power. It's our it's for me, it's that you know, it's the universal fractal aspect of things. We're we have more power in us, we have the power of the entire universe in this incarnational fractal vessel. Nobody else has it, and that's why we're so exploitable, right? And that's why we've been just programmed and and tortured and tormented over eons and eons of time uh to to exploit and control us. And yeah, disclosure for me is is wake up to who you really are. And um, all of this, you you pull one thread and this whole sweater unravels. That's what it, that's what the the truth reveals is you know who we are, why we're here, what we came from.

Tony 1:36:47

I've had I've had people um I don't know, I've had other testimonies that I just didn't think were genuine. And I say, well, maybe they are, I don't know everything. Right. And then other people tell me that my testimony is not genuine, which I don't blame you. Um I think that I'm ever just did this in the intention of offering one shred of facet of the of the stone that we're trying to see. And I think that you know, it all has to work for any one person's to work, you know, the truth. It has to come together. And um so we see things, and there definitely has been a counter push into the information as well. Like they try to muck up the water so people are, and it's worked greatly. But um I've been able to find a ton of info, um, a ton of evidence that supports being taken and going into a secret space program and presented the evidence many times. And so I I stand by that. I would never come on here and talk to you and embarrass myself if I were making this up. But you know what I mean? If I didn't have something to support me.

Speaker 1 1:37:57

Yeah.

Tony 1:37:58

And unfortunately, I do have a list of things that that support what what I remember over the years I I've discovered, and it still continues to grow too, actually.

Claire 1:38:08

Um well, it must, right? All all will be revealed, you know, and and I encourage everybody who's listening to go to Tony's website, go to the the also to uh Scion, right? Uh well, we'll put all the links obviously in the show notes and and read and to read your book because it it's a riveting, absolutely riveting read. Uh I I I can't, I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna finish it in 36 hours, but um it's it it's not a long, super long book either, but yeah. Well, I've got the Kindle version right now, so I don't know how long it is, but I I'm like, wow, I just can't get enough of of um uh of truth. To me, I think you know, we have a capacity to recognize the the the vibration of truth when we hear it. And uh and I'm not saying that you know you have all the answers that you remember anything, everything that you, you know, but you know, there is the the authenticity of your voice and your presence. Uh and and you know, I always encourage uh people to just, you know, hold hold a space, uh find spaciousness enough within to listen to the testimonies of people who've been through a hell of a lot and have had the courage to come forward. And you know, and I don't know, we didn't talk about this, but I mean, did you have threats against you when you started to talk or did you have honestly in the early days, not so much.

Tony 1:39:41

It's only been recently since I really got to the core of some things. The uh when I went to Inyokern physically is when it really the the resistance really stopped. Uh I had um I'm adjusting myself here. I had Resistance in the beginning. I had people um contact me saying they were gonna sue me. And I had people from Hollywood say, look, that was in our movie. You're stealing our movie intellectual property, we're gonna sue you. And I thought, wow, what a brilliant way to shut people up. Is to make a movie about it first that they know it's real. And then when somebody remembers it and comes out and talks about it, it's copyrighted. And so that happened in the beginning. And I was greatly attacked. The first two years really I didn't quit want to quit my day job at all because I was attacked a lot. And I just was a way of life. And I I bore the brunt of it. But after, you know, four or five, it just kept growing. And I kept researching. I was just dying to prove it. And the more evidence I found, the more people listened. You know, when I found the it was in 2020, August of 2020, when NASA confirmed the salt spots on Ceres, and I called that out in 2016.

Claire 1:41:08

Oh wow.

Tony 1:41:09

So in 2016, I said, they said, What is this? What are the white spots on Ceres? I said that's salt. I remember we flew over it. I remember it. We I it was a it's a geyser. A geyser goes off and then salt, the water evaporates in the salt, snows back down. And I never we flew over it when it happened, and it was beautiful. I had that memory the whole time. Even before I got my memories back, I remembered that. And I said, it's salt. And then the Dawn probe went there and analyzed it some months later, and they said it's sulfur and a bunch of other chemicals, anything but salt. And I said, uh Dr. Salah said, do you want to retract your statement before they confirm? And I said, absolutely not. I don't care what they say. If there's one thing I remember about any of that 20 years, those are salt deposits. And then in August of 2020, Dawn Probe went finally to a much lower uh orbit around Ceres and got a spectral analysis and it was briny salt. So they had they had actually theorized that it was salt in the beginning, but they originally said, and it's funny, I can't find the article anymore. They took it down. They were saying it was sulfur and it was all these other things, compounds. And uh maybe it's in my email. But um it was confirmation. And when I did that, when that happened, and then the book came out, it was really like it gained steam, you know.

Speaker 1 1:42:34

Yeah.

Tony 1:42:35

But um now, since I went to Inucurrent, I physically went there and wrote the book Beyond Site, and that's when I had actually um the apparatus come after me. Like the actual programs are have started uh with me. So this last year has been bumpy. I had to I had to relocate.

Claire 1:42:56

Well, I was gonna ask you about that. I don't know if you w want to say anything about it, but when when you and I met at GSIG briefly, I remember you said uh, you know, you were in Sedona at the time.

Speaker 1 1:43:08

Yes.

Claire 1:43:08

And you said something about, you know, I just found out, you know, they've got me in a fake city with surrounded by fake people, and you know this and and I looked back, it was a psychological operation.

A Teeming Universe Kept From Us

Tony 1:43:24

Um, I don't want to talk about it a whole lot, you know, name names or anything, but ultimately it was a psychological operation, and they put a bunch of people injected into my life, and and when the time came, they were all going to pull the rug out. And then I would I don't know what the what the I don't know what the goal was because I caught it before it happened. But when I looked back, they slipped up. Okay. They slipped up and I am a remote viewing teacher. So you you I mean, to put it mildly, I I have the ability to see things m in a scientific manner that is uh high probability. And so I began when I started, I started to see that I was in a construct, even the house I was in, the house I was in was doing things on its own. And uh like I bought a bug sensor and they were in all the light switches, and the fuse box was locked. I couldn't get to the fuse box to kill it, to open the the panels, to look at anything. It was a lot of weirdness. I I'm Claire, we can do another couple hours of me just telling you what Sedona was like.

Claire 1:44:36

I would love to do that. Maybe we can do that another time. Maybe if you're up for it.

Tony 1:44:41

Okay.

Claire 1:44:41

Yeah. I mean, I'm very interested.

Tony 1:44:44

Very charming to talk to. So thank you. Um, but in Sedona, once I caught it, I started looking back. The other thing was that I had pictures in my phone. And there were people that were like I said, they insert people in your life, and they come up and tell you how awesome you are, and they love you, and I want to help you. And also, I'm I'm the guy that professionally does exactly what you need to done. That I and I oh, what a coincidence! Here, call me. And so you start working with people and they slowly put these people around you, and then the plan was to just pull the rug out from under you and go, you know what, forget it. I don't want to do any of this anymore. Like it seems like that was the goal. And when I caught it, when I caught a few of them, and I really started thinking about it, and then I did my own little checks and went and then one of them slipped up and kind of let a blurted out a word, blurted out some words that kind of showed his cards. And I thought, and I went, oh God. And then I so when I went back into the pictures and when I met everybody and the emails to when the first people started contacting me to get consults, like I found that you know there was like a dozen people that contacted me a week after I went to Inokern. It was right after like they that I went to Inualkern physically, crossed the line, and then they pulled the trigger and the uh the operation began. And it was all right in the short time right after Inualkern. And when I saw that, I went, oh God. And then I looked, the house, the house I was in was bugged, and it had all these, you know, it would creak. There was a microwave array about a mile away that was just popping up out of the mountain that had no purpose whatsoever. And I was walking one day and I looked at it and I went, What? And my house that I was in on the street, you know, houses face the street.

Speaker 1 1:46:41

Uh-huh.

Tony 1:46:41

My house was like this in a square lot, which made no sense, facing the microwave array. And it would come, I would get up in the morning and have coffee and sit down in the ceiling right above me, would creak, like very loudly. And I go, that was weird. And then people would come over and say, you know, Tony, there's spirits here that follow you. There's spirits. Be nice, talk to them. Don't don't upset the spirits. Like people would just drop in and say that. And I go, and I didn't buy into it. You know, and I thought maybe there's a cat or something up there on that's making the roof. But the house was extremely loud. You know, like when a house makes noise when the temperature changes. It was it was the loudest house I ever been in. And friends would come over. JP is a whistleblower. He stayed the night in our guest room. John Charles Moyen and Melanie came and stayed days with us, and other friends like D in the guest room. And JP was like, man, there was something. He's like the ceiling all night long. I was like, Yeah, I don't know. And so I went for a walk when I was putting it all together. I went for, I just went for a walk in the neighborhood and looked up and I saw this a mile away. And I went home and then I flew my drone over it and got pictures, and then I used AI on the power cable. And I said, What kind of power is going into this? And what is this array? And it was all these things pointed right at my house. And I said, Well, what can it do? And then I immediately made a report and emailed, you know, Danny Henderson, Dr. Salah, Elena JP. I emailed all my friends. I said, Look, this is going on. I drew it to the house, showed all the pictures. The house never creaked again.

Claire 1:48:20

So, what was the source of the creaking, do you think?

Tony 1:48:23

It was a microwave array. It was, it was, the house was built in the mirrors in the so the bathroom was mirrored, and the the way that the heating was made, the house was engineered. When I looked at what this could do, they could bounce microwaves off and change the way you feel. I kept waking up exactly at three o'clock. They were interrupting my dream cycle, waking up at three o'clock. I'd go somewhere else, I'd go to Europe and sleep fine, or go on a to a conference and sleep just great, and go home and couldn't wake every three o'clock on the dot. And the house would creak and say, But what I'm saying is they could they and then I was doing a remote viewing on film. I was filming a remote viewing for Elena's book.

Speaker 1 1:49:09

Yeah.

Tony 1:49:09

And the house made the most noise ever. The front door started popping, and I was I was on, I had somebody on the the camera, and I said, I gotta check this out. Just like I did with you. I had somebody at the door. I did that. Hang on a second. Nobody at the door. The door was like moving. And then I came back in and I started filming and doing a remote view again. Then my skylight on my bathroom did that. It wasn't the whole house getting a windy day, but it was flexing. It had this. So I said, I gotta let you go. Something's going on. I gotta I gotta stop this. So I was interrupted from my work. So they had that. What I mean is I was inside a grid, I was inside a a machine to to I, you know, it was a PSYOP, whatever. I crossed the line and and and got close to the evidence, got close to real tangible evidence of my account, which is a classified program, still classified information. So um they did something about it.

Claire 1:50:08

And uh who's behind uh an operation like that?

Tony 1:50:12

My best guess is it's the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency. Uh, but uh it's just a guess. And they we've so we we uncovered dream dream warfare, dream influencing and other remote viewing stuff. Like there was a there was a lot of things that came to light there that are very uncomfortable for me to talk about still.

Claire 1:50:34

Yeah, yeah.

Tony 1:50:36

Well, thank you for small education.

Claire 1:50:39

Yeah, thanks for for you know giving us at least uh um a window into what that experience was like. Um yeah, I think it just shows us that there's so much going on we don't realize that there, the capa the capabilities are way beyond what anybody imagines. And um, yeah, sometimes I think we attribute a lot to our own um personal failings. We tend to blame ourselves and think that we're deficient somehow. When actually, you know, we're living in a system that makes it really hard to um to fully express yourself in a natural way. And uh, you know, it's it's it's been a real challenge.

Tony 1:51:21

We think we think we live in a system that is bungling and not and mindless when in reality it does exactly what they want, and they're very good at everything they want. Every dollar, everything that they want at the very top gets done. And they have a they have a very good eye on us and what we do. And they're the the secret of protecting you know these programs um goes back a long time and they're very they're very motivated to protect their secrets, you know.

Validation, Attacks, And Salt On Ceres

Claire 1:51:52

So what's your uh positive message or insight if you have one in the face of all of this uh synthetic control?

Tony 1:52:02

I went on stage after so I was spooked. I also got poisoned uh during that time. So I was very spooked. Whether they wanted to kill me or just kind of cripple me, I don't know. But I'm still uh recovering, I think, you know. I don't know. Um I was very scared uh and at a loss and kind of just want to continue my work. I want to develop these products, you know, the learning system and the scion and I just want to make a living and and carry on. I don't have some kind of you know um hatred towards these people. Uh but I was really spooked about it, and I went, I was spoke at the GSIC in um in Charlotte. No, the one in Eastbourne in the UK and I was mad and the crowd there was really kind. And I said, I'm tired and I shared everything I could with them about what happened with the crowd, because it was it was only within weeks of the discovery.

Claire 1:53:03

Yeah, I was there.

Tony 1:53:04

I were there, yeah, and I said the the thing my positive spin was if everything that I'm saying in my book and everything that I'm talking about is BS, they wouldn't have messed with me. They wouldn't bother to they wouldn't bother with me. These are people that are these are people that are on to very big problems in the world, and they wouldn't touch me uh if it wasn't if it wasn't important. So that all they did was validate me. Whatever happens. You know, they can they well I could choke on a chicken bone tomorrow. Um all it does is validate everything that I've said. I think that I think that my book is gonna matter in the future after I'm gone. I you know, I really do. I think somebody in the future, af post-disclosure, you know, when we're already out there and they they disclose and everything, somebody's gonna read my book and go, oh, wait a minute. You know, there might I I just have that feeling that some detail is gonna be relevant in the future, at least I hope so.

Claire 1:54:02

Yeah. Wow. Is there anything else that you feel compelled to share at this time?

Tony 1:54:11

Um just that um the whole subject, they're getting ready to tell us. So who knows? 2026, uh, you know, I've been saying it for 10 years. I hope disclosure is coming soon. I don't know for sure when. And I know that we're ready. It's that it's the people that are in charge are not ready to give up the to give up power in a certain way to move to the next level. That's really the holdup. But they're getting ready to tell us, and if them sweeping me under the rug and people like me so that we can get the the the watered down version of the truth is still the truth, and it's still the opening, you know. Once it begins, it won't stop. And it doesn't matter how much of my testimony they sweep under the rug, it doesn't matter at that point. Mankind will go to the next level, and I think that's the biggest um takeaways, the the mindset of it. Like, I I'm not trying to prove a point or go and fight with people. You gotta believe what I'm telling you, or else, like really, um the future is gonna happen really quick. And it's gonna happen really quick. Once it starts, it's gonna happen very quickly. And um, it's a good thing. I'm not afraid of AI, I'm not afraid of the Chinese, I'm not afraid of anything that they're gonna do to us in you know as we go. Um, and that I think that's the best mindset that the future is bright.

Claire 1:55:44

Well, I um absolutely agree with that. I'm happy to hear that confirmed yet again uh by somebody that I respect and admire. And uh I just want to thank you so much, Tony, for spending all of this. This is uh, you know, great amount of time. And thank you so much for for being here with me, for sharing your story and for, you know, just being willing to go there in all these different ways.

Tony 1:56:12

It's my pleasure, Claire. Um you've been been great the whole time I've ever known you, and I'd love to come back if you'd ever have me.

Claire 1:56:19

Oh, we'll talk about that. Thanks so much.