Liquid Gold: The Forbidden Medicine Within with Megan Macdonald

What if one of the most powerful healing technologies available to humanity has been hidden in plain sight—inside the body itself?

In this profound conversation, Claire welcomes Megan Macdonald of Expansion Healing, researcher with Dr. Group’s Global Healing Institute and a leading voice in the modern reclamation of Shivambu (urine therapy).

But this is not simply a conversation about health.

It is a conversation about shame. Scarcity. Self-rejection. Control systems. And the sacred intelligence of the human body.

Together they explore:

✨ Why disgust has been used historically as a tool of control
✨ How urine therapy can restore nervous system trust
✨ The spiritual and emotional healing many experience
✨ Water as memory, intelligence, and living code
✨ Why this practice feels ancient… and futuristic
✨ The link between self-love and self-sourcing
✨ Why the body may contain more wisdom than we were taught

This episode is an invitation into deeper waters.

Megan Macdonald is a researcher, teacher, and facilitator whose work sits at the crossroads of embodied practice, ancestral wisdom, and lived transformation. With a doctorate in performance studies and a background in ritual and theatre, she’s spent years exploring how belief takes shape in the body—what helps us thrive, and what keeps us stuck.

Her path led to the world of self-healing, where she now works with individuals and groups to help them reconnect with their bodies, their intuition, and the deeper intelligence of nature. Megan’s work focuses on Shivambhu (Urine Therapy), the Self-Healing Dalian Method, and integrative practices to reduce inflammation and deepen the connection to self. 

Through coaching, a vibrant membership community, and regular teaching on YouTube, she offers support for those walking a path of deep healing and spiritual growth. Her approach blends grounded research with personal experience, making space for the sacred, the scientific, and a lot of humour.
Megan leads the Urine Therapy Research Initiative (UTRI), a project dedicated to gathering stories, evidence, and insights from practitioners around the world. Forming a bridge between user experience and scientific study.

Instagram: @expansionhealing
Website: https://expansionhealing.ca/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionhealingmeganmacdonald

Transcript

Opening And Channel Support

Claire 0:03

Welcome to the Grace Space, a transmission for the sovereign soul.

Megan 0:20

But the point is then, if you can make someone believe that they they feel that they're not worth they're not worth anything, that there's something about them that's disgusting on an inherent level inside, that person is going to then hate something about themselves. And this is also then completely defeating behavior. And it's much easier for that person to then be told what to do. Because why would they take initiative? Why would they say what their ideas are? Why would they try to change society or better things? If they're in a deep state of disgust and uh revulsion and hate toward themselves because of something that's been conditioned or taught.

Urine Therapy As Remembrance

Claire 1:06

Hey everyone, real quick before we begin, if this content matters to you, you're warmly invited to subscribe to this channel, to like this video, to leave a comment, or all three. I read all the comments, and your engagement is really important because when you engage, it tells YouTube to push this content out to more people who would find value in it. Now that I understand this, I engage a lot more with channels that are important to me because I know it really matters. Thanks for listening. Here we go. Hey everybody, I'm very honored to have Megan McDonald with me in the grace space today. And this is not going to be an introductory conversation about shivambu or urine therapy. It is an invitation into deeper waters, into the mystery of what we once knew and have been programmed to forget. Megan is joining me as a fellow walker of the path of remembrance. And together we uh explore how this sacred practice represents a complete inversion of the control matrix's messaging and a radical portal back into embodied sovereignty. So let's jump in.

Megan 2:29

It's interesting that because today I was trying to bring together three different strands of research that other people are doing. So I basically do a lot of like literature review, is how I'd put it. Because I I mean you could call it research in that I'm reading research articles. But I some people, for them, research is only if you're in a lab and you have specimens or you have things to that you're working on yourself. And if you're not doing that, it's not research, it's just it's other stuff. So anyway, I'm just thinking about I've been reading these things, and part of what's really showing up for me is that so much information that is completely linking us to the actual underlying truths of how the human experience works. I could say human body, human soul, whatever, but that that interplay between we are animated, let's say we're animated by a soul, but the body is the materialistic of the earth, and the experience we have in that, there's all sorts of truths associated with that. And a lot of these truths have been passed over to put it on the most positive end, and obfuscated or repressed on the negative end. And what I find really I can't remember the word you use, but the word is coming to me is like scintillating. What I find really exciting in this moment of things changing is that more people seem open to the ideas that would have maybe even five years ago, they would have gone, no, no, no, don't talk about that. It's like something about it's like saying, you know what, the truth sounds like the truth in the end. You know, and often I say something as simply as I can, like every single human on this planet has already swallowed their own urine because we all did it in the womb. And it's truth. There's there's no debate on that. And if you hit it right with a sentence like that that is simple and the truth, so many more people now are able to go, wow, I didn't think of that. I haven't thought of that. But they don't recoil in disgust. Wow.

Claire 5:28

So how would you then uh describe the deeper invitation behind Eurotherapy beyond the physical healing? What is it asking us to unlearn?

Megan 5:42

Well, part of it goes right back to the spiritual search. It's asking us to unlearn that we're separate. Ooh, I just gotta chill. Yeah. Because we are, we talk about being linked to the elements. We talk about being linked to the essence of what is, you know, we say, um, you know, our body is the earth, our body goes back to dust. Right. We we talk about how all the water on the planet will, you know, evaporate, go up into the clouds and rain down somewhere else. Well, that includes the tears that we cry onto our face, and then they evaporate too, and they go back into the cycle of the water on the planet. So all of the water that's in your body has been water somewhere else on the planet. How are we not all linked and not separate? Your urine was in the clouds. I love it. Because if you're drinking water, where is it coming from? And you're and the water you're drinking is what's creating your urine. So the water that's feeding the trees and the plants and the vegetables and the water in the puddle that your four-year-old jumps up and down in, and the water that you encounter in a bottle when the only water you can find is bottled water somewhere, all of it is linked. All of that water is linked. So if we're talking, when we the invitation from Shivambu is to say, this water links me to every other human, it links me to the earth, it links me to the waters, it links me to every metaphor that exists around water, which is also that water is about flow, it's about going around barriers and obstacles, it's about finding a way that is generally not violent. If you live on an on a coastal area, as I grew up in a North Atlantic coastal area, when a storm hits the coast hard, the water can seem pretty violent. So I'm not saying there's no power in water, but the power in water is not about cutting like a knife. The power in water is still about surrender.

Claire 8:15

Well, you know, apparently all the water that is on this planet is all the water that has ever been on this planet. Exactly. Yeah.

Disgust Shame And Social Control

Megan 8:26

And uh recently, I don't know if you follow Veda Austin's work. Yes. But she had a bit of a clip uh in the last week where somebody, she said, people are always saying to her, What sort of water should I be drinking? You know, because everyone's concerned, the highest quality water, the the best ozonated, you know, um reverse osmosis, distilled, whatever. Everyone thinks that they need to get the best water. And she said, basically at the moment, she made one exception, but she said, forget about that. It's not available to us, uh, whatever it was. It's like below the earth's mantle. But generally speaking, about 2% of the water that is of like that we could actually look at in the world, about 2% of it is drinkable at this moment. She said, Stop asking the question of what water should you be drinking, and be absolutely friggin' amazed that there's water in your cup at all. Because the the number of things that had to happen to get water into the cup in front of you in that moment are so multi-layered and complex that if you just give incredible thanks to that water for being in your cup, that water will interact with your system so beautifully because you gave thanks and because you see how blessed you are that there's water in the cup in front of you at all. Yes. Yes, yeah.

Claire 10:00

The consciousness is everything. Yes, the consciousness and the connection and the whoo, we're gonna talk about deep waters that we're exploring. I'd love to go into um the role of Shivambu or urine therapy in deprogramming us from the spell of revulsion, you know, explore the layers of mind control and how urine therapy helps to pierce those layers of mind control? Can we can we speak to um the depth of the revulsion spell that we've been under, the sort of multi-layered shame and disgust that has been programmed into humanity around our own bodies, functions, existence? Uh, where does that programming come from in and what does it serve in your from your point of view?

Megan 11:00

Yeah, well, okay. So this is also, I hope you remember that full question because there's a lot in there. Um the it's interesting because just today I saved something uh that was on social media, which says disgust is the gateway emotion for healing toxic shame. Yeah, which is why I saved it. Um, and it was because disgust caught my eye, because urine is all about disgust and taboo. And then the way this person is going is a different direction because this isn't about urine. This isn't what this person was talking about. But some of the points that were made were that toxic shame isn't just a thought or a feeling, it's a deep cellular experience that drains the life force out of us. Yeah. And this is from someone, if you if someone's wondering, I don't know this person at all. I just happen to see this thing, Irene Lion, Irene, and then L-Y-O-N. So, and if you want to go look her up, you can look her up. But I know nothing else about her, just found this one post. And so the reason I'm bringing this up is because there were a few words on here, like that sentence, that she's already explained it. I don't need to try to find the words to explain it right now. In I have been told by people who've done research on this that every society in the world, specifically when we get into fascism or totalitarianism, that sort of thing, they all use disgust as a way to identify who are we and who are the other people. We are the good people, the other people are disgusting. Now that's one that's one level of taboo where you get into we don't do what they do, right? We of this religion, or we of this language, or we of this land, they're not of our land. We're, you know, like that's how we know that we're from our land, we do the whatever it is, whatever the dis the like the thing that separates us is disgust is used there. However, to then also control people within society, you then say, these behaviors are disgusting, don't do them. And one of them then is don't touch your own urine. That's disgusting. But it can also be around food, right? We this food is disgusting, whatever it is, for whatever reason, we don't eat that. You know, and there's still people who are like anything that crawls on the bottom of the seabed is disgusting, and there are other people who are paying thousands of dollars for oysters and lobster. So, you know, this is very, it's it really varies. But the point is then, if you can make someone believe that they they feel that they're not worth they're not worth anything, that there's something about them that's disgusting on an inherent level inside. That person is going to then hate something about themselves. And this is also then completely defeating behavior. And it's much easier for that person to then be told what to do. Because why would they take initiative? Why would they say what their ideas are? Why would they try to change society or better things if they're in a deep state of disgust and uh revulsion and hate toward themselves because of something that's been conditioned or taught?

Claire 14:25

Yeah. And the point is, we don't even really realize, you know, it's been so internalized that external control has been so internalized, and we have such deep inner conflict that um, you know, that that to me, we we see that expressed in how people often feel instinctively drawn to the practice and then immediately repulsed, and they're dealing with two seemingly opposite um impulses or feelings.

Megan 14:56

Yeah. And so you can see that if society itself is conditioning people to internalize some aspect of disgust toward themselves, then it's going to be difficult to wake up to anything about who you are. You're not going to see your own power, your own agency, your own, all these different things that are happening. And this is part of then as people start to wake up to it, this is then what you get where they're like, I really, I totally believe in the power of this thing to heal me, but I also am wow, that really makes me uncomfortable at the same time. And that's when they that's when they actually are aware of what they've been conditioned to because they have they suddenly there's a disconnect. Before it was you're, you know, we're you're talking about urine, but um urine is gross, and I totally get that. And I have no reason not to think that because I'm never gonna do anything with it. So it can be gross. But as soon as you think it can heal you or it can be beneficial to you in some way, then you come up against, well, wait a second. I still part of me is still saying it's gross. Where is that part of me? Where did that come from? Why can I not just erase that part of me? And so one of the things again in this little post that I brought up was that um it's a very, very deep somatic cellular level in terms of some types of disgust. So if you smell rotten food, your body goes, oh, don't eat that, right? That's supposed to be there. But we've been trained um that urine, which actually doesn't usually smell problematic like fresh urine doesn't shouldn't smell problematic. Urine on the street or in pain in cotton after it's been sitting for a few days, yeah, that's gonna smell because the ammonia is breaking down. That's the smell we associate with oh urine smell. But fresh urine doesn't smell like that. So there's then this this connection to about it's so multilayered. I mean, uh to unpick this, we could we could talk about this for a long time. There's something about in order that this highlights that so many people don't have nervous system health and regulation. Totally. Because if you smell fresh urine and you start gagging, there's no reason to gag. It doesn't smell like anything. Really, even if it's pungent first morning and you smell it, it smells earthy, it smells a little whatever, but it doesn't smell like rotting food, it doesn't smell like something that or a dead animal that you find in the forest by mistake or a you know, whatever. It doesn't smell like those things. So what where is the disgust coming from? Because your body's not having a reaction that says, this is bad for me. This is coming from somewhere else. So your nervous system is not generally speaking, a lot of people, it's not healthy and it's not regulated. And so, interestingly, once you start working with urine, your nervous system starts to repair. Your sense of smell starts to come back online, your taste will often change. So all these things will start to change, but it's like you can't so many things that are problematic in our society. If you start working with your urine, that thing ends up being healed or balanced or shifted. So this is another point to the going back to the disgust. Why do we feel disgust? We're programmed to feel disgust partially because if we're if we feel disgust at all toward ourselves for whatever reason, then we are going to critique ourselves, judge ourselves, be harsh on ourselves. It's very hard to love yourself when you're doing all those things. And the whole you have to love yourself sentence is so problematic. You have to love yourself before you can love other people. Well, how are you supposed to know how to do that? And if you start drinking your urine, you have to accept who you are, what you taste like, what you smell like, what just what just happened in your body is in your urine, and you have to accept that in that moment in order to drink it. And so people report over and over again that the more they, not even the more, if they start drinking their urine and they do it with any consistency at all, they notice that they start to understand the sentence, I love myself.

Claire 19:43

Yes. That is profoundly true, and that I can completely uh bear witness to that in my own personal experience. So tell me, like in your experience with your clients and your community, what kinds of, if you could give a specific example, something recent maybe, you know, the kind of transformations that occur not just physically but spiritually and emotionally when somebody crosses that threshold and reclaims this part of themselves. It's interesting.

Megan 20:15

Um of course, at the moment, I'm like, no one's jumping to mind. There's no particular example. Like, I don't have a really dramatic example of someone. I mean, I have over the years, there've been so many people who've told me their stories, but the stories are all so different. And the ways that that comes to people, it's always so unique and different as well. So, like, I'm just thinking about one of the first people who the first time that I'd really talked publicly in that I was on a Zoom call was 60 or 70 people, and I talked about urine therapy, and none of these people had were had ever like they were not ready for this. This was a shock to the system that this topic was coming up. And this was about um like four and a half years ago. And afterwards, one of the women on the call talked to me a few months later and said she had been suffering with really bad allergies and allergic reactions in her eyes specifically. Her eyes had been itching like all spring, and this was now what when was it? Middle of April. But where she lived, spring started earlier than where I lived. So she'd been in agony for it sounded like at least four weeks, if not six, right? Her eyes had just been raw, red, itchy. Nothing was working. She was trying all the herbs and the tea bags on the eyes and the like whatever she could think of to bring down the allergic response. And finally, she had to take heart like over the counter antihistamines, but those Make didn't didn't make her feel good. The rest of her body didn't feel good, even if it took down some of the itching in her eyes, right? So she was really at a hard point of like, can't take the antihistamines every day, but have to do something. And something clicked when I talked about it. And she said, as soon as that call was over, she was in the bathroom peeing into a cup. And within, you know, it's as but basically the call was over. She peed, and she said, like within a minute, maybe it was two minutes, but with as fast as she could, she was bathing her eyes in this fresh urine. And she said the the relief was almost instant. And she knew something told her inside as I was talking, it was like, this is it, this is what I need to do. Nothing else has worked. This is gonna help. And it did immediately. But she didn't tell me for a couple of months. I had no idea because she didn't know me. I was new to this community. But that was one of the most supportive comments to hear that whatever it was that I managed to communicate about urine, it landed in a way that this person understood that what their body was creating was gonna help them. And they didn't need me to tell them anything else. They were good to go. It's like you know.

Claire 23:29

Well, I you know, I find that to be true every single time. Every time I'm working with somebody and they begin to work with their urine, I it's the most beautiful thing because they you can see that it has this power of reconnecting us to our intuitive knowing. And um, it basically tells you how to use it. You know, still questions come and you know, is this okay? Should I do that? You know, but they answer themselves. And I I've not ever seen or experienced a more potent uh reconnector of my inner knowing uh than I have just personally uh working with my own shibambu, but also every single person that uh that I've worked with who has started this practice has just felt that inner guidance uh and known what to do.

Urine As A Biological Fingerprint

Megan 24:39

And so part of what we both have seen happen is this people often say they feel more connected or more intelligent. And the in the more intelligent, as I understand that, the way it's hard to put words to it, but I understand why so many people say intelligent. It's almost like answers just come quicker. Like it's it's like if in the computer, right? So it's like as you're working, it's like everything just sped up. And it's not that it actually sped up necessarily, but it's that whatever question you fed in one end, it feels like the answer comes more clearly, more quickly. So it's like there's less work needed in the middle of it. That's one part of the intelligence, actually being able to sort through information, but then there's the connection to the inner knower that you mentioned, and that's about intuition, the deeper self, the soul, the extended under like concept of how we are our soul, it goes beyond, you know, and the immortal soul is is a different thing.

Claire 25:40

Both are sorry, I'm dying to talk about this aspect of things. Go for it. Well, that I mean, you know, if if we can just deepen into sort of the metaphysics and the quantum aspects of of this practice and talk about you said you mentioned the word intelligence, right? The the intelligence of the waters, the waters on the planet, the waters in our body. So, how does our urine function as more than a detoxifier? How can we account for the fact that it is somehow a personal signature, um, you know, like this um carrier of encoded light and memory? How do we account for that?

Megan 26:22

So uh Dr. Wisshart at the University of Alberta, who runs the human metabolome database and study there, which has been going, I think, since like 2008. And they're the ones who have this incredibly detailed, they have multiple databases, but the one that I just mentioned, the human metabolome database, they've found over 3,150 endogenous metabolites in urine. What's a metabolite? Anything that you can find in urine that's made by the body, in this case, endogenous made by the body. So I could call them chemicals, but then people go, ooh, chemicals are bad. But no, like vitamin C is a chemical. Like as what is it, ascorbic acid. It's a chemical. That's what so, but so they're calling them metabolites. But this includes hormones, uh salts, proteins, lipids, carbohydrates, uh, enzymes, anything you can think of. There's like over 3,000 of them. So the reason I bring this up is how do we account for it, you said. Dr. Wissart specifically said in in one of the things he's uh one of the articles he's quoted in urine is like a fingerprint. It's unique to you. Your urine is so unique to you that they could trace you back if they had a sample of your urine. They could figure out it was you versus someone else. So that that's one aspect of it on a on a biological level, it's as unique as your fingerprint. So, right away that tells us that if it's that unique, then yes, there is an encoding. There is a specific set of information there that is being created only by you. And then if we take it beyond that, because we started by saying all the water on the planet's already been there, and all the water that's happening is flowing through everywhere that water moves and flows on the planet, and back into your body and back out into someone else's body and into the trees and into the plants, and the animals drink it, it goes through their bodies. So all of the water on the planet has the encoded information of everybody who's here. And theoretically, who was ever here? And then we look at Veda Austin's work where she gives us these examples over and over again of you put the petri dish with the water over an image or a plant or a whatever, and the water doesn't just show when it's frozen information about an apple seed. If it was over an apple seed, it doesn't show the apple seed, it shows the outline of an apple. So the water is an information carrier which says, ah, seed, seed will become apple. Apple is the possibility. The water doesn't go, I see a seed, I see a little brown dot. The water says this is the potential of the apple. So if water can encode that much information and carry that much information with it as it flows around the planet through us, through everything, etc., then why would we not understand that urine can carry this? Because you're water, depending on the water again and where it is, but water is H2O, and it then might have, if it went through the water treatment plant, it could have chemicals in it from the water treatment plant. If it came up out of your well and you live in a place with a lot of iron in the soil, you could have more iron in your water. Like there's there's H2O, so there's hydrogen and oxygen, and then there's other stuff that's in there because it's very rare unless you have distilled water to have water, which is only H2O. But then on top of that, we have to look at you, if we're looking at urine, urine is water, but it's carrying all the stuff that your body makes. It's carrying it in tiny, tiny, tiny volumes. It's not like a teaspoon of this and a teaspoon of that. It's minuscule amounts of these things, but it's enough that they can be tracked, they can be traced. So when they test your urine, they can find it. And urine is generally negatively charged. Not all the time, not every day, not every person. It depends on all sorts of things. But your body's trying to create generally more of an alkaline urine and more of a negatively charged urine. A negative charge in water is going to give electricity to the body. We're electrical beings. We our heart is an electrical vortex. It needs electricity. Everything needs electric, your brain synapses, everything needs electricity. Urine has electrical charge, it can give that back to you. So, well, how can urine be a carrier for all of these things? It's an electrically charged, which means it carries light. It's an electrically charged liquid, which is made up of the building blocks of what your body needs to actually grow and develop and sustain itself. And that liquid has passed through everything that is alive on this planet and it links you to every other woman in your maternal line who had a womb, who had a baby in the womb, because that water has also been re-imprinted over and over and over again with what the baby can become. If the fetus is a seed, and the water, the amniotic fluid becomes mostly urine by about month seven. And then actually the amount of amniotic fluid goes down because the baby takes up so much space. So it at there's there's a point at which there's a lot, there's a lot of amniotic fluid, and most of what it is is urine, is the baby's fetal urine. Not quite the same as adult urine. Let's not, I don't want to get into an argument with someone who said, but it's not like adult, no, of course it's not. It's not quite the same as adult urine, but it's very close. And it's still urine in that sense. It's not dangerous because if the if the fetus doesn't pee, the fetus doesn't develop, it dies. So our urine is actually necessary for the development of our physical body. So our urine as water in the womb. If I take the example from Veda Austin with the apple seed and the apple, why would that water not go? Oh, this little thing is the seed for that. And it would see our potential to be taller, to be an adult, to be whatever it is that is encoded in us. And each of us is unique because our urine is like a fingerprint. So it's an electrical fingerprint that was around us and in us in the womb and understood our potential.

Light Codes Elements And Taboo

Claire 33:17

And and it's basically everything, it is everything, and so we are everything, we are it. So we are everyone, everywhere, everything from all time on this planet, running through us and being then influenced by our own signature and flowing back out into the collective. Yes. Well, geez, Megan, that's not profound or anything. I'm sorry.

Megan 33:55

Who said they wanted to go deep today?

Claire 34:01

I've had so many rushes of heat and like emotion running through me, just listening to you. Um, it it just you know, we have this capacity to recognize truth. It's like it's like you said, right? Truth. Um and uh to me, this is just one of the keys that we've been given. And that explains why it was also taken away. Uh so have you have you um had experiences or heard stories where where this work brought about not just healing, but actual uh spiritual activation or revelation?

Megan 34:46

Well, yes, but I would say every time somebody starts to say, I feel more kindly toward myself, I'm more gentle with myself, that's a spiritual activation. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a connection with the divine understanding. As soon as we get past the urine is is dirty and we get into my urine has healing powers, we're into the realm of the divine.

Claire 35:08

Yeah.

Megan 35:09

So and it does that so quickly. A lot of people too report that they they hear, they say that it feels like they hear a lot of them say it was God saying, drink your urine. Yeah. Yeah. Now I didn't hear that. I had a yoga teacher saying that, so it was fine. But you know, a lot of people get to that point where it's like something happens, and so how it that's reported over and over again, and that there's a voice. Yeah. And some people say it's their their higher self, some people say it's it's God, some people say it's like you know, a specific iteration of God, so it's Jesus or it's you know, whoever. But they the fact that so many people say they hear a sentence is really interesting.

Claire 36:00

Yes. Well, because I heard that sentence. It was like do drink it, drink your pee now. You know, I mean, yeah, and we've we've talked about it. Like I was already sort of in the practice, but not all the way, and and it was very firm. Yeah. So some people describe their urine as liquid light or golden codes. What are we talking about there?

Megan 36:27

Oh, there's people who talk about light codes, that there are actually there's information encoded in light, and we're talking now again. I mean, this is one of those things. I mean, we're we were just talking about urine and like the idea of water and that we're all connected through water. I think anybody who specializes in this in a different way could say we're all connected through the land, right? Our bodies are made up. This is the earth, and so we all have the we're all made of the earth. We go back, we are we compost back into the earth, and then the next time we're somebody's born, that body's also made from the earth, right? So I just want to, you know, you could talk about the air. We all breathe in the air, we exhale the air, the air is encoded in some way, shape, or form with the frequency of us because it had to go through our body and our lungs and come out the other side. And then there's the air outside. So I mean, what you could make these, I think all the elements are the elements because they're so powerful. And that's why every society has teachings on the elements. And so I think all the elements link us. But in this case, you know, we don't have a taboo on breathing. We don't have a taboo on our digestive fire and talking about fire or fiery thoughts or sparks of creativity, right? Which is how we could link with fire element or whatever. But we have a taboo around urine, and yet urine is water element. And where is the bladder? It's in the second chakra. The second chakra is water element. You know, there's just so many things that we can go back to and go, well, you know, thousands of years of philosophy and practice from very advanced societies have shown us over and over again that the body is not a mistake or in any way, you know, there's no um what's uh I can't think of the word. Um when something looks like it's just a chance that something happened. There's another about it. Um, and so that is definitely um we come back to that over and over and over again. But it the light code idea. Um, when people talk about light codes, they've noticed that like when light goes through water, when light um reflects off of a surface and lands on another surface, that sometimes there are shapes, patterns, uh, repeating patterns, um, sacred geometry, like certain colors that show up, right? Like with rainbow when it's refracted a certain way. But there's many people who believe that we're actually getting information or downloads or that the light of the sun activates encoded information in what it's hitting.

Claire 39:11

Yes.

Gold Microscopy And Human Evolution

Megan 39:12

So if the light from the sun is activating encoded information and water and your body's full of water, then you're going to have an activation by being in again, high-quality light. And what do we hear over and over again? That the blue light that surrounds us in most of modern society in cultures that have the money to buy a lot of blue lights, that these lights are damaging to ourselves, that they interrupt our sleep cycles, that they make it difficult for us to be rested and calm and have our nervous system feel aligned. And that the being out in the sun, getting infrared light on the body, that all of these things are very good for the light, for the um reactions that happen within us that help us to regulate and all that. So, yes, again, like light codes and the idea that we should be out in nature being part of all of these elements makes total sense when you think of that. I mean, the other thing I just this this idea has popped up twice now, and it didn't really it sort of fit before it sort of fits now, but we have to remember to for our body starts making urine and is putting it into the bladder, the bladders in our body. We're walking around with urine in our body. Why? And our body does not spit it out as soon as it's made, as if this is toxic waste material. It's not like, oh my goodness, there's two teaspoons of it. Quick, eliminated, push it out. It's dangerous. It's very happy to hold on to it. How many of us have held on for hours? Right? A whole flight, many times. And yet, as soon as it empty, as soon as it leaves the body, we act as though it's toxic material. But it was just in us for hours. And if it was toxic, the body wouldn't have allowed it to stay there. Even when we look at feces, which we've been told, like we're not, we use different animal waste on our plants and our crops, and it helps it grow because there's lots of things that help stuff grow in there because it's a form of compost. But we still generally treat it, we do something to it, we let it ferment and change over a season and all of this stuff. We work with it in a different way, and we don't eat it. We don't eat animal feces, we don't eat our feces. There's something about it, but even then, like we can touch it. We change a baby's diaper, we touch it, we the world doesn't end. We wash our hands and keep going.

Claire 41:36

You know, it's and and and also, I mean, you know, I'm thinking back to the uh Earthship book that uh that I have. Uh, you know, the the Earthship design included using urine and feces uh to you know complete to to close the loop in uh a cycle of total sustainability. Um, you know, that there was a way to recycle or repurpose everything. And so, I mean, that totally uh goes with what you're saying. So tell me this. We say that there's I've I have heard and I feel that there is gold, literal gold, in the is this really true.

Megan 42:23

Well, it's an interesting one. Is so there's two, there's different the spiritual types talk about two different types of gold. They talk about gold, AU, on the periodic table, and then they talk about monoatomic gold, which is a different classification. And I looked it up ages ago, and I could not spit out an accurate definition for you right now. But you can look it up yourselves and go, what are they talking about? I don't want to get it wrong, um, unless we take a pause and look it up online. Um, but there's there's a distinction there in terms of all gold is seen as highly valuable and spiritual, and it's been used in every society that has a spiritual practice. Gold is used in ritual, it's used as a metaphor to be refined in the refiner's fire as gold, for example. There's things like that that come up. Um, or that the gifts of God or the gifts of the spirit are like gold. You know, so there's it's it's always spoken of high highly, but it's it's still an element. And this other gold, the monoatomic gold, if I'm getting that correctly, there's a people connect it with a spiritual activation, that there's more to it than just being something that's shiny, pretty, or pure, but it's goes beyond that in that it has an effect potentially on the human that is a spiritual heightening or direction.

Claire 43:49

Is that yes, yes. Uh, this is uh intuitively where it feels like it's going for me, you know. This practice connects us not only to ancient memory, you know, in our indigenous uh and ancient technologies of healing, but also to the future human in my feeling. That's how it feels to me.

Megan 44:18

So one of the people who I've interviewed or chatted with a few times is someone called Fiona Gardner. And she looks at blood under the microscope. She's a microscopist, but she also then, because she started doing urine therapy, she started looking at urine under the microscope. And if you want to go look at the ones that I've done with her, she's she's done interviews with other people too. I just don't have the links. And if you go to She's gonna be here in the gray space, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So look out for that and enjoy her talk with Claire. Uh, but if you want to go see some slides, I have two talks that are specifically just with her and me, where she shows her slides. And one of them, the first one, just talks about like the power in our structured water. The second one has gold in the title, and she specifically looks at what she's seen under the microscope in terms of the gold color coming out in people's urine after they start drinking urine therapy, after they start drinking urine, after start doing this sort of work. And that even beyond that, she did do a test on herself using uh deuterium depleted water. And that's a whole other discussion, and I'm not the expert on this, but she noticed that her own urine, that the crystalline structures that are visible to her when she's doing this work within her own urine were had more gold in them when she had deuterium depleted water. Now, we also cover the fact that urine is deuterium depleted water. So if you're drinking a lot of urine and you're then that is also happening in you. Um, but in general, she's seen from her clients over and over again that before they start drinking urine, their own urine is disorganized, um, has not a lot of structure, not a lot of light, and not a lot of color in the crystalline forms. And as soon as they start drinking it, like one shot of their own urine, and the next time she took a sample from them, it's structured, it's full of light, it's full of color, and the crystalline forms are exquisite.

Claire 46:24

It's remarkable, it doesn't take much.

Megan 46:27

No, no, and this is part of this thing with them where like the body knows your urine, it's not new. Your mind is going, Oh my god, what am I doing? Meanwhile, you put one shot of urine in your body, your body goes, Yeah, I just made that. Not a shock in that sense. And by the way, I the first nine months, not full nine months, the fetus starts peeing between week eight and week 12 or week 11. So, from about, let's say, week 11 until you're born, your body was very in touch with its own urine. So, again, not new. But the fact that it switches so quickly. So, what is this gold pointing to exactly? What does that say about gold? What does that say about the fact that the more that we do this, that that one of the main colors that starts coming up is it's not just yellow, it really is a gold color. What does that say about who we are?

Claire 47:25

Yeah, and where we're going. Yeah, who who we are already? Yeah. You know. So, in your view, what is the role of Shivambu in the evolution of the human species? Could this be part of the emergence of a new kind of human, what some people call homo luminous?

Megan 47:45

Well, so part of me wants to say this was always there, and we just haven't been using it in this way. Because I do not, I cannot contemplate the idea that there have not been humans doing this all the way through. Of course, there have. Every indigenous culture on the planet that I have seen a report from at all where someone has said, this culture used it to tan hides, this culture used urine for dye, this culture used, and they all the Greeks, the Romans, they all knew that urine um was good for whitening cloth. It was also good for moisturizing your skin. Like this is not news. This has been known. Humans knew this, they all knew this. It was not whatever, it was not a problem. Um, but what is the difference now? So there is an interesting piece there to say there were there have always been humans who did a lot with their own urine. There must have been. But not everybody, even if it wasn't as taboo as it has been for the last, I don't know, thousand years or whatever, not everybody who was using it was that we know of was having ecstatic spiritual experiences. So then is there a difference in the timing? Is there a difference in a moment or a shift of the of the balance structures? Whether we want to look at astrology or any other sort of ancient wisdom that involves charting of how of human development, charting of seasons, charting of cycles, when do cycles repeat themselves? What do we seem to learn each time that happens? How did we go from the industrial revolution to having refrigerators that talk to us? You know, like there's a huge leaps that have happened, which obviously we cannot deny. But is there something that we're ready for it now in a way we weren't before?

Claire 49:46

Is there a lifting of density? Yeah, I I've asked myself the very same question because to me it feels like a bridge. Uh, you know, um it's definitely opened up my perception uh of its role specifically. It's almost like it's functioning as a bridge toward the toward the light body, and it's changed it's changed my relationship to food and water and fasting, and you know, this is just even in the last six months I've had a big shift just in terms of I I I I just know that it has a role to play, I just feel that it has a role to play in um in the um re-emergence of of this homo luminous version of ourselves. And the gold is uh is something to do with the gold. That's just my own.

Megan 51:01

Well, I mean, this is the thing where when people, you know, as you mentioned, people call it their liquid gold. Um, when you actually take blood and you spin it in a centrifuge, you get three things. You get the red blood cells, and then you get a little tiny bit, which is called the buffy coat, and then you get the plasma, and the plasma is yellow, yeah, or gold. So in your blood, your blood is made up of three things. And the I mean, when it's outside of the body, it's red. When it's inside of the body, I don't know, like it depends on which direction it's flowing in or if it's oxygenated or whatever. But the color inside your body is different. But outside your body, we have this red, but it that encompasses this gold color that is flowing through your whole system. And then what comes out, of course, when it gets filtered, we end up with the urine, which is generally various shades of gold. And people talk about it as if it's precious. So then we get back to precious metals and precious gold. And so all of these words that we have developed in our languages that talk about the most precious things, we use all those words around urine when we really have worked with it and we understand what it's doing and we see the shifts and changes in our lives. So that does speak to there, it is a precious resource, but it's also abundant. So it doesn't bring us to that state of going, it's precious, I have to hoard it, or it's precious, I have to be careful of it, or I'm gonna be punished if I don't treat it the right way. Our body doesn't hoard it, it doesn't deny it us. Our body goes, no problem, we'll make more.

Claire 52:39

Yeah.

Megan 52:41

Exactly.

Claire 52:43

Well, and I read, uh, I read an article about just to go back to what you were saying earlier about electricity, right? Read an article about the um ability of urine to power your house. Are you aware of that article?

Fetal Urine And Human Potential

Megan 53:00

Not a particular one. No, if you want to send it to me, sure, but I've read all sorts of articles about different people who've done like from a group of um girls who lived in an African country, which I now don't remember which one it is. So again, I don't want to make the guess at which one it was, but their school project was using urine to power um a small generator. Exactly. Yeah, and not difficult to do. And the the amount of electricity that comes out of our body every day in urine, and again, I don't remember what it was, but it was a massive amount of energy that comes out in our urine every day. And we were just pissing it away. Yep. Yeah, there's another thing. Somebody said to me, they they I forget who it was, but they they remembered that when they first were drinking their urine, they remember going, This doesn't taste like piss. And they said, now they would never call it that because that word does not carry that sense of gratitude, preciousness, delight, whatever it is. And we've mostly used urine. I've said shivambu a number of times because that's the word that I tend to use, also because it's a great word to use in public because no one knows what you're talking about, and you can have a really long conversation about shivambu while you sit in a cafe next to two other people. They have, and nobody's up, there's no problem, right? Whereas if you sat there and talked about urine for two hours, you know, the people next to you would be would talk about it for the next three weeks, the weirdos they sat next to who kept talking about urine. So um people find their own word as well, but even just the way we talk about it changes radically. Um yeah, it is. I mean, I have to say, I really do think it is leading us into the next thing. Well, I was um go ahead. No, but it's just there is that thing about timing. What has humanity ever been ready to do at any given time? And there've always been people who were ahead, people who were the way showers who were trying to point us in the certain direction, and often they were the ones who were punished for trying to show us the direction to go at every juncture, the you know, names that we hold on to, whether it's Joan of Arc or whoever, like, you know, there's these people who still we repeat their names, or they're in a story that has been passed down orally. There's always people who tried to show us the direction. But one of the things that I've come to, the way that I've described this, because this is what I understood when I started looking at gestation in textbooks. The just, you know, assuming all of this is somewhat correct in biology, right? Because again, I'm not an expert in this area, but cells implant, they start to multiply. As they multiply, various types of tissue start to form that are distinct from each other, right? Versus like outer epithelial skin, in internal epithelial skin, very different things, right? And then bones start to function, like structure. That's a different tissue altogether. So all these things start to happen with these cells. And before we even really, like we kind of look like maybe like we're gonna be a mammal. Let's say you could identify this group of cells now, look as trying to look like a mammal, but would it be totally obvious that we were human at that point? Like we're far away from that by week eight. You know what I mean? Like we're teeny tiny and not maybe we were gonna be something else. But somewhere between week eight and week 11, we have blood through flowing somewhere enough that we have kidneys, and the kidneys are filtering it and they're producing urine. So we don't have a fully formed um brain. Our eyes are not formed fully, they're not where they're supposed to be yet on our face. Like they're still in, I think they're like out here before they move in. There's all these things like that do not exist yet. But we have kidneys that are big enough to filter and produce the beginnings of our urine. So, one of the first, the way I understand it, one of the first things that comes online comes online is our urine production. And if the fetus doesn't start peeing, then they actually die. Then, because they're peeing, and it's not just it's it's coding the body, it's helping to reinforce and the actual skin development, but then you have to breathe it in through the sinuses and the parasinuses, and you have to take it in through your mouth and swallow it. And if you don't do those things, your organs don't form. So you don't even really exist fully yet, but your urine is creating your physical body. So part of what I've understood from this is your urine is actually going ahead of you. Yes. It is pulling you forward into the next iteration of you in the womb. It's carrying the material needed to create the next part of your body that needs to be made. And it goes back in and it does it again, and it goes back in and it does it again. And there's more than just that in the amniotic fluid, there's other things too. But as I said, the urine ends up being a huge part of it. And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't matter if all the other beautiful things are in the amniotic fluid. If the urine isn't there, the fetus dies. So the urine is necessary, it's not an afterthought, it's not by mistake, it's necessary. So if it's necessary the whole time we're in the womb, why does it stop being necessary when we come out? What it if it's pulling us forward into who we're gonna be in the womb, why would it stop pulling us forward into who we're gonna be?

Claire 58:37

Well, I mean, every morning, if if for some reason I don't, I don't get to drink it, put it all over my body, in my eyes, in my nose, sinuses, in my ears, like everywhere, I don't feel like I'm starting my day properly. I feel like I'm I get reborn. It's it's almost like what you're trying to use it the way that you did in the womb, yeah, by allowing it through every orifice and all your pores and drinking it and all of that, you know, it's part of like it's a rebirth every every morning. Absolutely. Yeah.

Megan 59:20

And we don't have again, like people will say, I can I can say some pretty wild things right now in terms of like, I think it reinforces our DNA blueprint. I think it contains our original DNA that is not um corrupted, damaged, or yeah, corrupted in any way. I think it takes us back to the um the end our our originating energy, which is also very calming for our nervous system. Um, I think it it tells the story of what we just did over the last however many hours, and then it goes, oh, okay, here's here's what ideally we would do next. And so it it takes in it has information from the past and it points towards the future at the same time.

Claire 1:00:05

So it's really a quantum multidimensional teacher or ally. Um and maybe this is all coming back online now because we're remembering our multidimensionality and our infinite nature, you know. I mean, what you said about there's always more of it. That was one of the clearest things to me when I really began in earnest my practice was wow, oh I always have enough. I always have enough. You know, it it's uh pointing us back to or or helping us to remember that we always have enough. It's helping us to to break the trance of scarcity and not enough and you know, um hoarding and worrying about the future and if there's going to be because I mean, there is so much severe fear on the planet right now. Um it's to me, it's like a perfect antidote to that fear that just reminds us that everything really is okay, that um we truly are infinite. And I'm not being poetic or you know, woo-woo. I mean, that is the truth. And and it can help us to wake up and remember who we really are, because all of us are actually giants, spiritual giants who came to this planet to well, remember that under very difficult circumstances. Yeah, yeah.

Megan 1:01:51

But the and then this is also the thing about it's difficult to hold all the complexity at once, but there's the it's taking us somewhere, it's showing us the way, but then we come back to what we said at the beginning, it's us, yeah. And it's as it's as uh unique as your fingerprint, and it is simultaneously as unique as your fingerprint and as universal, yes, as everything, yeah.

Claire 1:02:17

Which is our fractality that's an expression of our fractal nature, yeah. So um uh for someone who may have heard of this practice but is still on the edge of discomfort, uh, what would you say to the part of them that is afraid?

Megan 1:02:40

Well the way part of one one thing is do you want to try it? Do you really want to try it? And if you really want to try it, then you make it you have a conversation with your body and you say, Okay, I'm gonna, if you haven't done anything, then you put it on your skin somewhere. You put a drop of it on the back of one hand, or you put a drop of it on a foot or a your your arm or your ankle or whatever you can handle, but you put it somewhere and you do it every day for a few days, and then you look at that skin that you've been treating with urine every day, well, you know, for a couple of days, and your body will tell you pretty quickly is that skin happy? Is it well moisturized? Is it supple? Does it have good color? And I will tell you that will all be true because this is one of the things that urine does the same way for everybody, is it moisturizes and calms the skin across the board. Once you get into other practices, urine will do all sorts of things that are unique to you. But in terms of yeah, what are you gonna have mucus come out of your nose? You're gonna have diarrhea come out of your intestine if if there's inflammation in your body. Um, and then there's people who drink two cups every day, they start drinking two cups every day from nothing, and nothing happens that we can see. Like there's no inherent physical demonstration that they started doing something different. So I'm just gonna say that the thing that we can count on is your skin is gonna be supple and moisturized and happy. And then from there, see if you can put one drop under your tongue, and then wait, and notice that you didn't die, and then try putting a drop on your tongue and wait and notice that you didn't die, and then take it from there. And if all you want to do is apply it topically to your skin because it's free moisturizer, great, wonderful. Do that if all and if you feel like you want to try drinking it, then go from a drop on the tongue every day to a teaspoon, to a tablespoon, to a tablespoon three times a day, to a quarter of a cup once a day, right? You you play with it, and this is the piece where I can't, there's no rules. I can't give you a playbook that says, here are the rules, do it like this. But you will notice if you're afraid and you start to use it and you talk to your body, and you go, hey, I'm gonna trust you, and I'm gonna do this, this thing, I'm gonna do one drop. You gotta tell me what you think about that. It'll be pretty clear really quickly that it's okay, there's no problem.

Claire 1:05:29

Not only that, you can it you the the uses of your own urine are so multitudinous. I'll tell you a quick anecdote. I forgot to tell you this before we was traveling recently um all over Spain and Portugal and Italy. And at one point, you know, we were um, I was with my dear beloved friend, and we were saying in an Airbnb, and we seriously needed to do some laundry. I mean, it was getting to the point where and we got to this Airbnb and there was no, there was a washing machine, but there was no you know um washer what do you call it um soap there was no soap there was no like detergent yeah detergent yeah yeah and you the the only stores nearby would have sold like the awful stuff with all the dyes and the perfume on I just don't use that stuff and I was like I know what I'm gonna use I know what I'm gonna use and my darling friend was scandalized and I I said well you you should know that the ancient Romans highly prized urine for the laundries and there was even a tax on urine um because it was so useful for the laundries and I looked it up and I read him the whole thing and he was still not convinced that it was a good idea but I used urine in the washing machine for the first time to wash my clothes and they came out smelling like flowers and perfectly clean and uh I was like is there nothing that you won't do you are so fine and so wonderful I've heard of people using their urine in like a diluted form uh as a cleaning spray house right generally more of the aged than the fresh yes because the ammonia content in the aged is high enough it's it's gone through its process whereas in the fresh it's there but it hasn't gone through the process.

Megan 1:07:40

And so um yeah aged on windows fantastic. This is what I hear I have not tried that yet.

Claire 1:07:47

Yeah so you know if for no other reason than you want to save money on everything that you used to have to buy at the store I mean this is what we're we're saying when we were saying you know you have everything we have everything that we need you don't need to go out there and buy a bunch of stuff you don't you know that's like part of the hypnosis of the consumer society that says that you lack everything and you need to go out and buy everything. I mean it's time to wake up from that trance it's just uh and I think that it's happening you know yeah and in Ayurvedic medicine they talk about any hole in the body can be treated with oil.

Everyday Uses And True Abundance

Megan 1:08:29

But the second thing that isn't written in all everywhere is we could then say every hole of the body can be treated with urine. So when people go what can I do with it? Well you can put it all over your body in various ways shapes and forms depending on whether you're just rubbing it in or putting on a compressed then anywhere in your body where there's a mucous membrane you can do applications. Yep. So there's start thinking about all the things you could possibly do. And I know brother Sage who's written a few books if you want to look up his books they're really helpful. I think he had a list at one point it was 26 protocols long. And you could say some of them are repetitious in the sense that he would say well you can you know soak your hands and a second one is soak your feet. Well they're both soaking a part of the body but sometimes people need a list and he has a good list of all the things that you can do.

Claire 1:09:24

Right well did you hear that everybody go check out Brother Sage's list.

Megan 1:09:27

Yeah yeah um so um if you could speak to humanity as a whole what what would you whisper into the collective heart right now it's a big question I mean the first thing that popped into my head completely on you know with that sort of clarity was you have everything you need and that's one of the teachings of Shivambu you have everything you need you have everything you need you your body has almost everything that it needs just with what is already in it and that's a different we could get into why that is so but that's part of it and then you have access to the information of the universe when you're able to listen and so if there's something else you need to know like it's time to move from this city to that city you'll know that information will become clear to you if it's time to go and pick an apple and eat an apple that will be clear to you so it's you have everything you need is both like an you're internally sourced.

Claire 1:10:55

You're a self-sustaining toroidal field I love it and you have access to the wisdom of the universe so what are you lacking absolutely nothing yeah and that's one of the things we're at we're here to to learn how to tap like dip our toe into that truth while we're here on the planet because it's a big that's a big truth and it might take a few passes of dipping the toe in to start to go oh that's what that means well I think if every person who hears this interview could really take that on board you know like not just as an idea but feel it in the body as the truth that it is you know we might just not nudge our collective uh past the point of no return for this awakening absolutely absolutely well well on our way well on our way Megan I want to thank you so much for this time that you spent with me and with us in the gray space today it's been so inspiring so valuable and uh I just know that uh it's gonna touch so many hearts thank you so much for being here so glad so happy to have these discussions with you and I know we'll do it again yes so thank you thank you for asking questions that uh also bring out more connections for me than I'm you know you don't make them the same way when you're just thinking your thoughts but when you have to express it and clarify and say it in in multiple different ways so that it is accessible to whoever happens to come across it.

Megan 1:12:56

I think it's a beautiful thing to be able to articulate thought and complex thought and especially about something that is so important at the moment that we are self-sourced.

Claire 1:13:09

Well I'm so grateful because few few people are better at articulating complex thought than you really have a wonderful way of doing that and so clear you know and and so um approachable thank you so much I can't wait to do it again here we go thank you Claire so what if the most radical act of self-love is to take back what was always ours what if the very thing that we've been taught to reject is one of the keys to our return so in this conversation we've walked beyond protocol and practice into the reclamation of the sacred intelligence of the body urine therapy is not just about healing it's really about unlearning it's about deprogramming it's about reclaiming what is yours by right it's about dismantling the ancient spells of shame and separation and scarcity it's like a golden thread that leads us out of this maze of distortion that we've been caught in for so many eons of time and back into coherence with truth and the truth is that we are never wasteful we we are never broken we are never less than divine these waters that are within us hold the memory of our own wholeness they mirror back this radiant light that lives within each cell the gold of who we are and as we begin to trust our own sacred flow we remember what it means to be sovereign in the truest most essential sense of that word so I hope this conversation has nourished the deep the hidden knowing in you I hope that it calls forth your courage your curiosity and your cellular trust and may you continue to walk the golden path home home to yourself back to the brilliance that is your birthright until next time remember your radiance the realness that you are remember that you are the medicine and as always walk in grace you've been listening to the grace space to amplify this field you're welcome to like subscribe or share thank you